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  #1  
Old 11-04-2013, 05:49 PM
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Beginning To Rethink the Idea of 2 Stroke Oil as a Fuel Additive

Since I completed the swap of a 617 diesel into my 107, I've been running 2-stroke engine oil as a strategy for replacing the lubricity that has been lost since the advent of ULSD fuel. Since the injector pumps of 617 diesels were designed for the "high" sulfur diesel available at the time with the diesel fuel providing the lubrication of the injector pump internals, it seems prudent to at least restore the lubricity of fuel to the previous levels.

Two stroke engine oil seems like a good candidate for this function as it is designed to be added directly to fuel for the purpose of lubricating the engine. It is also low-ash and designed to be burned along with fuel.

In the over 30k miles I've put on the engine I've seen no ill effects and the engine runs just fine, so I conclude that the 2-stroke oil is doing the job I intended it to do.

Recently I switched to a product from what I believe to be a reputable company, which is specially designed to replace the lost lubricity in a potentially better way.



This product is advertised to be run in a ratio where 1 qt treats 250 gallons or 1 oz for every 8 gallons. With 2-stroke oil I was running 1 oz per gallon (or 8 oz per 8 gallons).... so about 8 times as much. The wording on the bottle says treats "up to 250 gallons", so to be safe I've been running an easily remembered 2 oz for every 10 gallons (or 160 gallons per quart) A typical fillup is 15 gallons, so it's an easy 3 oz before filling.

Since making the switch I've noticed two positive things
  • My car no longer blows huge plumes of black smoke under hard acceleration above 3300 rpm
  • I no longer have a bluish oily residue building up on the rear of the car
The other thing I'm liking about the product is for long trips, there is very little additive to carry along, compared to gallons of 2-stroke oil. Plus it's clear, not heavily dyed like the 2-stroke oil. And it costs about $11 per quart.

Obviously things like bio-diesel would be potentially better options to use as a lubricity additive, but we have almost no biodiesel available in this area.

I've only run two tanks thus far, so experience is limited.



Anyway, I'm not promoting this product, rather just sharing some recent experience, my current thinking and looking for other ideas that people are using to address the fuel challenges with our vehicles.

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  #2  
Old 11-04-2013, 05:59 PM
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I'm afraid this will be a food fight as oil threads in my other forums get ugly so I assume additive threads will .

I don't know enough to have an opinion on this subject. I use Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost which claims lubricity additive is in there. Wouldn't know if it's good enough or not, I just read about it in several posts and took it on faith.

I've got so many two-stroke toys that it would almost be easier to use two-stroke and keep one less thing in stock.

I'll pop some corn and watch the more experienced diesel folks opine.
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:14 PM
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Let's hope that things can stay civil and factual and not devolve... I've used this product in threads to kill off unwanted debate on air filters with excellent results.



I guess if things get really out of hand, I can whip up a batch of "Additive Debate Repellant" to deal with that here.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach4 View Post
Obviously things like bio-diesel would be potentially better options to use as a lubricity additive, but we have almost no biodiesel available in this area.
According to the BioBuddy app, Pearson Fuels at 4067 ElCajon Blvd has B20 year-round.

I've been using 2-stroke oil on and off (I use cetane boost as well) and have noticed at this high altitude in central New Mexico (I'm visiting family) I blow less smoke than using just cetane boost and far less than straight diesel. I think they switched over to winter diesel already and this stuff burns awfully.

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Old 11-04-2013, 06:20 PM
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All over

This has been discussed here many times. It doesn't hurt anything. Likely
does lube the pump. Doesn't seem necessary according to most. I used it
for a while when I first got the car but after reading here for a while I figured it was something I could live without. There was one I read about
called Opti-Lube ( don't quote me on that ) that really did do a great deal
but it was a bit expensive. Most folks here with high mileage cars got there with no additives.
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
With 2-stroke oil I was running 1 oz per gallon
MMO which is primarily Napthalene is a 'thin' additive that atomizes better and burns in less time. Recommended mix ratio with fuel is 4 ozs to 10 gallons, or 320:1. Two stroke oil is a higher viscosity additive with components that require more heat to ignite and more time to burn. Using a ratio of 128:1 it's no surprise you're seeing black smoke and unburnt oil. Try reducing the quantity of oil. Compare the apparent viscosity of the new additive to two stroke oil to guesstimate where you want the adjusted 2 stroke ratio to be. The new additive recommended ratio is 1024:1 and you're running it at 640:1 with seemingly good results. I'd use those as upper and lower boundaries. I'll bet 2 ozs/fillup would work quite well.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:32 PM
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One ounce per gallon ? I use only twice that much on my two stroke equipment. Keep in mind also that the MB is equipped with a premium oil-lubricated injection pump working at relatively low pressure, so all the changes in fuel over the years doesn't seem to bother it as it did to the cheaper fuel-lubricated pumps.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Two stroke oil is a higher viscosity additive with components that require more heat to ignite and more time to burn. Using a ratio of 128:1 it's no surprise you're seeing black smoke and unburnt oil. Try reducing the quantity of oil.
Don't want to foul your glow plugs (joking)
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:04 PM
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Vegetable oil has excellent lubricity.

Put on a flame suit, debate repellent is not strong enough for this baby!
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:23 PM
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Over on a 6.5 GM forum there is apparently a long thread with comparative tests of various lubricity additives. I haven't waded thru it myself but I'm pretty sure the conclusion was that there's nothing better than 2 cycle oil. I use it in my 6.5 but don't use it in my TD.
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Over on a 6.5 GM forum there is apparently a long thread with comparative tests of various lubricity additives. I haven't waded thru it myself but I'm pretty sure the conclusion was that there's nothing better than 2 cycle oil. I use it in my 6.5 but don't use it in my TD.
Here's a link to a post that has the study I believe you're referring to - Lubricity Additive Study Results Note: I was looking for a primary source document, and it appears that this is actually it. If I find an actual link to the study, I'll repost that.

Well, if that's correct, and I have no reason to doubt the methodology or the results, it looks like I've inadvertently made matters worse not better.

Quote:
16)FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power
HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel (emphasis added)
1000:1 ratio
Looks like I'll be going back to 2-stroke oil

Quote:
7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
And adjusting the dosage from 100:1 to 200:1 as the test used will be more economical and make it possible to do my next coast to coast road trip on one gallon of two stroke oil (used 185 gallons San Diego to Wilmington and back)

Thanks for all the ideas and information.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:02 PM
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I have run virtually no additives in any of my diesels for 120k+ miles. How do they run? Great! My 300SD has 321k on it, original engine, original pump. Runs fine. No additives. None of my dads run additives either. I occassionally run fuel system cleaner in my gasser, but thats it, and not often....

Running stuff like 2 stroke oil is doing nothing but polluting the air 3x as much. Just the fact "oily residue on rear of car" was mentioned is gross!
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:32 PM
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I dump one container of 32:1 size 2 stroke oil in my tank when I fill it. The 32:1 is 4oz and the tank on a 190D is 14 gallons. I don't have any oily residue and the glowplugs came out clean when I changed them. They weren't fuzzy with carbon.

I just think you're using too much oil.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2013, 08:43 AM
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The test was 2007....time for a new test as I'd expect some of the players to have upped their game.

Test of multiple two stroke oils would have been nice. They used TCW3 conventional. Would like to see a full synthetic and a castor oil based test.

Honestly though once my power kleen is used up I'll just go the two stroke though, it's cheap and easy and looks to fill the need nicely.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:43 AM
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i like the blue smoke. if i wanted clear smoke, i would get a gasser.

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