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#16
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I use marine outboard 2 cycle oil every tank. I just dump in 12-16 oz every tank. It's cheaper than the 2 stroke oil for chainsaws and such.
My decision was based on the lubricity study that was linked above.
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1984 300D w/ 370k mi. daily driver 1994 7.3 idi non-turbo 180k mi. |
#17
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Hmm
Kerry, the study as I read it says biodiesel was the best performer 1/2 gallon per 26gallons of fuel... 2cyc was #7...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#18
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Quote:
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'83 300D, 126K miles. |
#19
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I didn't actually read the study. I just read other posts which referenced it. I take your word for it. What were 2-6?
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#20
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Quote:
3)FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas fuel treatment 4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend 5)Opti-Lube Winter Blend 6)Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 if you go by cost per effectiveness, I'm sure the scales move around a bit...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#21
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Quote:
Starting a new job in two weeks that's 130 miles a day driving. I'll be likely just running 2stroke as it's easiest.
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Eric, CPO, Submarines, retired. Here's a sig line... Mine: '68 Corvette LS1/4L65E, 83 240D, 2000 GMC 4x4, 08 FLSTC Anniv Hers: '72 Corvette 454/4spd, '99 MB SLK, '93 Metro vert, 78 240D, '92 Silverado, '65 Fjord Rustang, '59 Fjord Fairlane, '17 Slingshot. |
#22
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Quote:
I think people have forgotten the main thrust of this debate. The real goal is to find all the products that keep our engines well-lubricated, longer-lasting, efficient and non-polluting to the extent possible. It's like debating which product is better for you: Swiss cheese or Cheddar cheese? Hey, they both have protein, taste good and can constipate you if you eat too much! Suggestion: Instead of looking at at why my additive is better than yours, why not make a giant sticky-list so that no matter WHERE you are, you can find a product to treat that engine well and keep it running strong. I kinda thought that was the purpose of forums like this, no?
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Strelnik Invest in America: Buy a Congressman! 1950 170SD 1951 Citroen 11BN 1953 Citroen 11BNF limo 1953 220a project 1959 180D 1960 190D 1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr 1983 240D daily driver 1983 380SL 1990 350SDL daily driver alt 3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5 3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6 |
#23
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I just noticed recently that the place I usually fill up (which is the cheapest) is Murphy Oil and they seem to be running B20 ( or something like B5-B20) so I am good , I guess.
Interesting that used HDEO is somewhat beneficial in the referenced study. I am hesitant about that....
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??) |
#24
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Diesel Fuel Lubricity Additives Study Results
I've attached a .pdf version of the study results - link.
It would be nice to have an updated set of test results, but I'm certain that these tests are not cheap to have performed by a certified lab. Just to toss some additional data into the hopper for consideration (and probably to muddy the waters a bit), here's a nugget of data from the data sheet of the FPPF Lubricity plus Fuel Power product referenced in the original post. This test appears to be the same one used by Spicer. Comparison of results HTML Code:
Tester Base Fuel HFRR Treated HFFR Net Spicer * 636 675 39 worse Research Institute 425 260 165 better Recommended standards US - no greater than 520 microns Engine Manufacturers Association - no greater than 460 microns So the base fuel for the FPPF test exceeded the recommended standards to begin with. The question that remains unanswered in all this is, Why would the results get worse in one case and better in the other? Pending other data, the bottom line for me personally is to go back to 2-stroke oil but at a 200:1 ratio. As has been pointed out, experience shows little documented evidence of problems with the MB IP using ULSD, so for me the use of an additive is really just cheap insurance. I've done a significant amount of research and there appears to be no updated data, and even data on current HFRR testing of current fuels is not readily available.
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Current Stable
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#25
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Is there any issue with whether or not the hyper ball bearing test has any relation to what our ips do? I don't know enough about how an Injection pump works to be able to interpret the type of lubrication needed.
One thing in the study that I liked was that it hinted at the fact that there are lubrication additives in the uls diesel to begin with so it may be an exercise in futility to add anything to the tank other than diesel.
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77' 300D, "Cartman" SOLD @ 150K (didn't know what I had) 83' 300SD, "The Superdon" 325k+ @ 28mpg 95 E320 wagon, "Millennium Falcon" 231k+ @ 24 Mpg 95 E300D, "Sherley" 308k @ 33.69 Mpg, currently anticipating a head 99 Suzuki Intruder "Trudy" @ 45 mpg |
#26
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Quote:
The base HFRR in the two samples I referenced above were 636 and 425. That's a huge spread. If the "average" diesel we're getting is more like 425 adding stuff could be pretty much useless, on the otherhand if it's more like 636 it could be really helpful. And if it's all over the map, an additive is cheap insurance.
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Current Stable
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#27
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I've read the study and drive a Cummins 24V which needs some lube and add 2-stroke to the Cummins and both SDs.
Today one of the VP44 sellers on CumminsForum commented on possible negative effects but hasn't posted back with details. There are pics off injectors after running 2-stroke (you'll have to search for it - sorry) Home Page of Mopar1973Man I ran something else recommended by a friend of mine that sells diesel truck parts but quit using it because 2-stroke is easier to find/buy and the other more concentrated stuff was easy to over dose and not as cost effective as calculations would lead you to expect.
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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do. |
#28
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Interesting results here:
https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/1311/UsingBiodieselAsLubricity.ppt Slide 25 shows results of HFRR test with untreated diesel, biodiesel, and some mixtures. Conclusions found on slides 26 and 27. Some apparently newer tests are displayed in this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=196059 Tests supplied by additive manufacturer so should be taken with a grain of NaCl. Cummins TSB on Diesel. Technical, interesting. 32 pages. http://www.sbmar.com/Maintenance/PDF/Cummins-Fuel_ServiceBulletin_Nov-07.pdf Good info like the following: Quote:
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When life gives you lemmings... make lemmingade. Last edited by 1project2many; 11-06-2013 at 06:21 AM. Reason: Forgot link to Cummins info |
#29
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Quote:
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1984 300D w/ 370k mi. daily driver 1994 7.3 idi non-turbo 180k mi. |
#30
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Yes. Another study here backs it up, although it's a bit tougher to wade through:
http://www.eng.wayne.edu/user_files/414/file/Quick_Upload/Lubricity_%20Kapila%281%29.pdf A local company here buys veggie oil and supplies it cleaned and processed, and converted to synthetic diesel, to outside buyers. I met one of the original partners in the company and he told me almost all of the oil and fuel they produce is sold to major oil companies, by the railcar, as an additive for ULSD. After seeing multiple documents showing 2% BD restores fuel lubricity, I've got a better understanding of why the fuel's being cut with BD.
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When life gives you lemmings... make lemmingade. |
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