Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:49 PM
mach4's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego County, CA
Posts: 2,736
Beginning To Rethink the Idea of 2 Stroke Oil as a Fuel Additive

Since I completed the swap of a 617 diesel into my 107, I've been running 2-stroke engine oil as a strategy for replacing the lubricity that has been lost since the advent of ULSD fuel. Since the injector pumps of 617 diesels were designed for the "high" sulfur diesel available at the time with the diesel fuel providing the lubrication of the injector pump internals, it seems prudent to at least restore the lubricity of fuel to the previous levels.

Two stroke engine oil seems like a good candidate for this function as it is designed to be added directly to fuel for the purpose of lubricating the engine. It is also low-ash and designed to be burned along with fuel.

In the over 30k miles I've put on the engine I've seen no ill effects and the engine runs just fine, so I conclude that the 2-stroke oil is doing the job I intended it to do.

Recently I switched to a product from what I believe to be a reputable company, which is specially designed to replace the lost lubricity in a potentially better way.



This product is advertised to be run in a ratio where 1 qt treats 250 gallons or 1 oz for every 8 gallons. With 2-stroke oil I was running 1 oz per gallon (or 8 oz per 8 gallons).... so about 8 times as much. The wording on the bottle says treats "up to 250 gallons", so to be safe I've been running an easily remembered 2 oz for every 10 gallons (or 160 gallons per quart) A typical fillup is 15 gallons, so it's an easy 3 oz before filling.

Since making the switch I've noticed two positive things
  • My car no longer blows huge plumes of black smoke under hard acceleration above 3300 rpm
  • I no longer have a bluish oily residue building up on the rear of the car
The other thing I'm liking about the product is for long trips, there is very little additive to carry along, compared to gallons of 2-stroke oil. Plus it's clear, not heavily dyed like the 2-stroke oil. And it costs about $11 per quart.

Obviously things like bio-diesel would be potentially better options to use as a lubricity additive, but we have almost no biodiesel available in this area.

I've only run two tanks thus far, so experience is limited.



Anyway, I'm not promoting this product, rather just sharing some recent experience, my current thinking and looking for other ideas that people are using to address the fuel challenges with our vehicles.

Attached Thumbnails
Beginning To Rethink the Idea of 2 Stroke Oil as a Fuel Additive-fppf.jpg  
__________________
Current Stable
  • 380SL (diesel)
  • Corvette C5
  • Manx
  • Baja Bug
  • F350 Powerstroke
  • Auburn Boattail Speedster replica
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:59 PM
Smoker's Avatar
Fast Attack Submarines
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: South Central Florida
Posts: 473
I'm afraid this will be a food fight as oil threads in my other forums get ugly so I assume additive threads will .

I don't know enough to have an opinion on this subject. I use Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost which claims lubricity additive is in there. Wouldn't know if it's good enough or not, I just read about it in several posts and took it on faith.

I've got so many two-stroke toys that it would almost be easier to use two-stroke and keep one less thing in stock.

I'll pop some corn and watch the more experienced diesel folks opine.
__________________
Eric, CPO, Submarines, retired.
Here's a sig line...
Mine: '68 Corvette LS1/4L65E, 83 240D, 2000 GMC 4x4, 08 FLSTC Anniv
Hers: '72 Corvette 454/4spd, '99 MB SLK, '93 Metro vert, 78 240D, '92 Silverado, '65 Fjord Rustang, '59 Fjord Fairlane, '17 Slingshot.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:14 PM
mach4's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego County, CA
Posts: 2,736
Let's hope that things can stay civil and factual and not devolve... I've used this product in threads to kill off unwanted debate on air filters with excellent results.



I guess if things get really out of hand, I can whip up a batch of "Additive Debate Repellant" to deal with that here.
__________________
Current Stable
  • 380SL (diesel)
  • Corvette C5
  • Manx
  • Baja Bug
  • F350 Powerstroke
  • Auburn Boattail Speedster replica
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:14 PM
Phil_F_NM's Avatar
Camera Hacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic region
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach4 View Post
Obviously things like bio-diesel would be potentially better options to use as a lubricity additive, but we have almost no biodiesel available in this area.
According to the BioBuddy app, Pearson Fuels at 4067 ElCajon Blvd has B20 year-round.

I've been using 2-stroke oil on and off (I use cetane boost as well) and have noticed at this high altitude in central New Mexico (I'm visiting family) I blow less smoke than using just cetane boost and far less than straight diesel. I think they switched over to winter diesel already and this stuff burns awfully.

Phil Forrest
__________________
http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/

1972 220D "Trudy," named by a friend.

"The 220D sounds good... I suspect it is the only car that you need a calendar for, rather than a stopwatch, when doing acceleration tests."
Tom Abrahamsson
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:20 PM
NoSparkNeeded's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 509
All over

This has been discussed here many times. It doesn't hurt anything. Likely
does lube the pump. Doesn't seem necessary according to most. I used it
for a while when I first got the car but after reading here for a while I figured it was something I could live without. There was one I read about
called Opti-Lube ( don't quote me on that ) that really did do a great deal
but it was a bit expensive. Most folks here with high mileage cars got there with no additives.
__________________
85 300TD FED-Daily
84 300SD-Wife's
86 XJS-Sunday
66 GMC-Work- Given to my stepson
83 BMW Airhead- Given to my stepson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakes Region, NH
Posts: 179
Quote:
With 2-stroke oil I was running 1 oz per gallon
MMO which is primarily Napthalene is a 'thin' additive that atomizes better and burns in less time. Recommended mix ratio with fuel is 4 ozs to 10 gallons, or 320:1. Two stroke oil is a higher viscosity additive with components that require more heat to ignite and more time to burn. Using a ratio of 128:1 it's no surprise you're seeing black smoke and unburnt oil. Try reducing the quantity of oil. Compare the apparent viscosity of the new additive to two stroke oil to guesstimate where you want the adjusted 2 stroke ratio to be. The new additive recommended ratio is 1024:1 and you're running it at 640:1 with seemingly good results. I'd use those as upper and lower boundaries. I'll bet 2 ozs/fillup would work quite well.
__________________
When life gives you lemmings... make lemmingade.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St. Thomas PA
Posts: 957
One ounce per gallon ? I use only twice that much on my two stroke equipment. Keep in mind also that the MB is equipped with a premium oil-lubricated injection pump working at relatively low pressure, so all the changes in fuel over the years doesn't seem to bother it as it did to the cheaper fuel-lubricated pumps.
__________________
'83 300D, 126K miles.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:58 PM
ichris93's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 517
Quote:
Two stroke oil is a higher viscosity additive with components that require more heat to ignite and more time to burn. Using a ratio of 128:1 it's no surprise you're seeing black smoke and unburnt oil. Try reducing the quantity of oil.
Don't want to foul your glow plugs (joking)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:04 PM
scottmcphee's Avatar
1987 w124 300D
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 1,539
Vegetable oil has excellent lubricity.

Put on a flame suit, debate repellent is not strong enough for this baby!
__________________
Cheers!
Scott McPhee

1987 300D
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,355
Over on a 6.5 GM forum there is apparently a long thread with comparative tests of various lubricity additives. I haven't waded thru it myself but I'm pretty sure the conclusion was that there's nothing better than 2 cycle oil. I use it in my 6.5 but don't use it in my TD.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:47 PM
mach4's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego County, CA
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Over on a 6.5 GM forum there is apparently a long thread with comparative tests of various lubricity additives. I haven't waded thru it myself but I'm pretty sure the conclusion was that there's nothing better than 2 cycle oil. I use it in my 6.5 but don't use it in my TD.
Here's a link to a post that has the study I believe you're referring to - Lubricity Additive Study Results Note: I was looking for a primary source document, and it appears that this is actually it. If I find an actual link to the study, I'll repost that.

Well, if that's correct, and I have no reason to doubt the methodology or the results, it looks like I've inadvertently made matters worse not better.

Quote:
16)FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power
HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel (emphasis added)
1000:1 ratio
Looks like I'll be going back to 2-stroke oil

Quote:
7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
And adjusting the dosage from 100:1 to 200:1 as the test used will be more economical and make it possible to do my next coast to coast road trip on one gallon of two stroke oil (used 185 gallons San Diego to Wilmington and back)

Thanks for all the ideas and information.
__________________
Current Stable
  • 380SL (diesel)
  • Corvette C5
  • Manx
  • Baja Bug
  • F350 Powerstroke
  • Auburn Boattail Speedster replica
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:02 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 15,349
I have run virtually no additives in any of my diesels for 120k+ miles. How do they run? Great! My 300SD has 321k on it, original engine, original pump. Runs fine. No additives. None of my dads run additives either. I occassionally run fuel system cleaner in my gasser, but thats it, and not often....

Running stuff like 2 stroke oil is doing nothing but polluting the air 3x as much. Just the fact "oily residue on rear of car" was mentioned is gross!
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 92k - mine - (OC-97,400)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 18k - wifes (OC-25k)
'01 E320 Wagon - 161k - mine (OC-165,000)
'07 E350 Wagon - 136k - dad's (OC-139,500)
'01 SL500 - 58k - dad's (OC-59,000)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 83k - Brothers (OC-88,000)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:32 AM
mannys9130's Avatar
Ignorance is a disease
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,251
I dump one container of 32:1 size 2 stroke oil in my tank when I fill it. The 32:1 is 4oz and the tank on a 190D is 14 gallons. I don't have any oily residue and the glowplugs came out clean when I changed them. They weren't fuzzy with carbon.

I just think you're using too much oil.
__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-05-2013, 09:43 AM
Smoker's Avatar
Fast Attack Submarines
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: South Central Florida
Posts: 473
The test was 2007....time for a new test as I'd expect some of the players to have upped their game.

Test of multiple two stroke oils would have been nice. They used TCW3 conventional. Would like to see a full synthetic and a castor oil based test.

Honestly though once my power kleen is used up I'll just go the two stroke though, it's cheap and easy and looks to fill the need nicely.
__________________
Eric, CPO, Submarines, retired.
Here's a sig line...
Mine: '68 Corvette LS1/4L65E, 83 240D, 2000 GMC 4x4, 08 FLSTC Anniv
Hers: '72 Corvette 454/4spd, '99 MB SLK, '93 Metro vert, 78 240D, '92 Silverado, '65 Fjord Rustang, '59 Fjord Fairlane, '17 Slingshot.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-05-2013, 09:43 AM
benhogan's Avatar
CPA/Greasemonkey
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chapel Hill
Posts: 1,089
i like the blue smoke. if i wanted clear smoke, i would get a gasser.

__________________
Ben
1987 190d 2.5Turbo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page