Friggin shop says there is no way to replace hose on oil cooler lines !@#$%^&*
 

Ok, so the starter went out on my wife's 87 300D-T, it had been sounding sick for awhile, so while taking it off to deliver it to a starter rebuild shop in my area, I noticed the inside of the driver's tire and suspension was soaked with engine oil, I could see where it was wet behind the panel that encloses the oil cooler. So I began taking the oil cooler lines off at the oil filter housing, which actually made it a lot easier to get to the wiring on the starter anyway. I extracted the lines, and oil cooler as a unit because the lines wouldn't budge. I got the whole thing up on the workbench and began heating and trying to work the lines loose, using almost a whole can of Seafoam spray and WD-40 and PB Blaster, I tried it all. I finally got them off but in the process the threads on the cooler are messed up. I ordered the 'screwed nipples' from the dealer, they are supposed to be in tomorrow.

In the meanwhile, I went to 3 different shops that do hydraulic lines and they all have looked at the hose set like a monkey staring at a math problem and they tell me there is nothing that they can do. They want to make up an entire new hose with their own fittings and send me down the road, since they don't have the necessary fittings with a new crimp sleeve already attached there is nothing they can do. No one wants to even try to reuse the existing metal parts on either end.

I know I have read on this and other forums where it was no big deal, they just walked into a hydraulic hose shop and walked out with the rubber hoses replaced for less than $50.

Crap I worked at a NAPA store while in college, and we did hoses, it's not all that hard but no one will touch this deal.

Can anyone give me some ideas of what to do. I live near Des Moines, Iowa. I called a place in Kansas City that said they could probably do it, but that means shipping it there, waiting, blah, blah, blah.

Or am I just out $500 for a new line set.

Thanks:(

I would just use the proper line set. Having them made does not cost $50. We had some made for a 300SD a number of years ago and it was still nearly $120, and they were huge and thick and it made it difficult to install. Original lines are a much better solution.

The problem is this: the fittings, hose ID and OD, and crimp band are designed to work together. Mixing and matching can result in poor crimps or no crimp at all. There are many, many different manufacturers and hoses and it can be very difficult to determine just who / what manafacturer's system you're working with. I have to deal with this type of situation somewhat often.

I'd recommend finding a shop that does custom A/C work. Get a length of hose from them that fits snugly over the fittings. Then use dual hose clamps to clamp the line ends. If assembled carefully and properly it will work for years.

Original lines are $200 for an SD. This site had the cheapest price I found. I have to find the repair nipple. My lower oil cooler fitting has a crack. Roy has a bunch of oil cooler threads.

Reach out to member mach4, he is from the aircraft field and used -AN10 line and fittings to rebuild the hoses on his OM617 engine. Granted that is completely different than an OM603 but the theory ought to be the same.

Find a "speed shop" or a radiator shop or a truck repair place.

The radiator shop I used for hard lines was incredible, fast, and cheap.

I'm not familiar with the oil cooler setup on the 603s, so I don't know if my solution (custom 617 setup) might work in your case.

What I did was adapt aircraft style AN fittings and stainless braided oil lines for my cooler. Here's a link to the process

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/3048510-post118.html

It does require brazing and drilling/tapping, so it might be too complex.

The primary advantage to this solution is that the fittings are reusable so if you ever need to replace the lines again you can just make up a new line yourself and be ready to go.

Again, I just don't know whether this would be a potential solution in your case, but one never knows.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ect-380-65.jpg

Ha, I was obviously typing while you were posting...

The 603 setup has a "remote" oil cooler mounted in front of the wheel. Though different in execution the concept is the same, and I'd think your stainless retrofit would work fine.

-J

Both the OM61x and OM60x have the oil filter in about the same relative location, left rear of the block.

The coolers are different.
OM61x cooler is next to the radiator, tall and skinny.
OM60x cooler is behind the left bumper in front of the left tire. It is almost square.

The lines both start as hard lines at the filter housing. They transition to flex lines along their length at different points. The 61x is almost all hard line with a little flex line. The 60x is about 60/40 hard/flex.

You'll still have the same situation. You'll need to have adapters in the oil cooler ports. And you'll need to cut off the hard lines just past the crimps for the flexes and braze on adapters.

you forgot to mention..."and it looks EFFIN' SAHWEEET"

Some people will say the stainless braided lines are not original - true enough, but let it be known that Mercedes has gone with braided stainless in their later engines.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1383854870

Just upgrading to "current MB technology" :)

Thanks for the replies. I forgot to say in my original post, the hoses were not leaking the cooler was. I just figured it was a good time to get the rubber hoses replaced while getting the cooler fixed, that way everything was done all at the same time and hopefully good to go for awhile.

But seeing how it is not as simple as I originally thought, I may just put it all back together and save up my money to buy a replacement set. I wish I could find a set for $200, I would order them right now. The cheapest I have found on the net is $460 for my set.

I will have to pony up $280 for a cooler if the radiator shop can't fix it, that would bring the total to $740 for the whole job.

Now I understand why I have seen people bypass the cooler by cutting the hoses and connecting them back together in a loop.

If this car wasn't in such good condition I may consider it myself, or at least until I can save some $$$ toward new parts.

I do like the stainless steel braided hose idea, but I have no idea where to start ordering what fittings, sizes, adapters, etc. If I was familiar with that kind of stuff I'm sure it would work fine.

you could always go aftermarket on the cooler. Those are quite cheap, and some have excellent reviews. Best part is many are available with AN fittings integral

The Screwed Nipples for the 617.952 Oil Coolers may or may not fit your Oil Cooler.
The threads on the 617.952 Oil Cooler Nipples are 22x1.5.

The issue with the Hydraulic Shop. What the Shop does is expected to be warranted. They can only warrant parts and assemblies they know are going to work.

They could be Nice Guys and hobble something together for you. If the Hose comes apart and destroys an Engine some People would take them to court on that. Time lost having to appear in Court also equals Money Lost.
I have also seen on those Peoples Courts where Shops did something to help someone out. If the charged for what they did the Judge held them responsible for the outcome.
The Judge basically said that the Shop making Money even to help someone out should not be more important then doing the Job correctly and that the Shop should have refused to do the job.

Summer. If you want to do a Job to Help someone out don't accept any Money for the Job. If you accept Money for the Job do the Job correctly or don't do the job at all.

In one of those 3 long Oil Cooler Hose repair threads one of our Members used and Air Conditioning Hose, the AC Hose Collar Crimping Tool and the AC Hose Collars.
That seems expensive but at least you have a nice Crimping Tool set left over from the Job.

Also on the 617.952 Oil Cooler Hose the Oil Cooler Hose ID size is 15mm. In 4 years of looking on the internet all I can say is US Hose Companies do not make this size of Hose.

No quality shop is going to risk mixing hose ends , hose and ferrules for someone off the street, there is just too much liability. Hose assemblies are crimped to a diameter not pressure. Don't crimp enough and the hose will blow off, ( it might take some time until the hose shrinks.) If the crimp too heavy, you will cut the braid / crush the hose end.

Also, some hose ends are smooth and rely on the ferrule being locked to the hose end. With this type of system, if you use a non locking ferrule the hose will blow off. Since everything crimps at the same rate, tight enough on the hose might be too loose / tight on the lock.


When you worked at NAPA, everything was from the same system so crimp diameters were known.

-10 ( 5/8 ) Hose is 15.875 mm , yet another variable to compensate for. This is too loose for what the OP wants to do.

The one shop I went to said he would not touch it due to liability issues. I agree if an inferior crimp blows while going down the highway and pumps all the oil out of the motor a $460 line set would have been cheap in the end.

I will more than likely just put it back together once the cooler is fixed. If it can't be fixed I will have to order the cooler at least, then get the hoses at a later date as time and finances allow.

If anyone can steer me into a better price on the hose set I would appreciate it. I have been several places on the web, the cost is close to $460 everywhere I have looked for my car.

Thanks.

I've got a couple spare good oil coolers...

Then why the title and disparaging " they looked at the hose like a monkey looking at a math problem"?

You make it sound like the shops were at fault for not hacking something together. The shops did the right thing and still got slammed for it.

If one hacked the hoses together and it blew off, the title of your post would have been " Fin shop didn't build the oil hoses right and my motor blew up, I'm gonna sue."

Where is the cooler leaking? Maybe it can be salvaged.

The AN Stainless hoses would be pretty easy to make up. Here's the list of parts.

2 ea AN 10 weld on fittings - about $5 each
2 ea AN 10 x 1/2 NPT - about $5-7 depending on straight or 90 degree
4 ea AN 10 reusable hose fittings - about $10 ea
3 ' AN 10 stainless hose - about $10/ft (guessing here on length)
Welding (actually brazing) - about $10 each (I used my local A/C shop)

That gets you to about $120 in materials and services. The only other thing that needs to be done is the oil cooler needs to be drilled and tapped. It's a pretty easy process but you need a drill press, a 3/4" step drill and a 1/2NPT tap. That gets you a solution well under the $200 you said you'd be happy to pay.

Everything listed is available on ebay, online speed shops and likely local speed shops as well.

Vstech, is the fitting setup on the 603 cooler essentially the same as the 617 cooler? Do you think the same drill/tap approach would work?

This looks like a good substitution, no?
http://www.dytech-dft.com/ita/prodotti/eoc.pdf

Tomorrow, I'm going to pickup a set of lines for one of my OM617s that I had a local shop braze on -10AN fittings for only $40 per line. I'm pretty sure that includes the steel braided hose as well.

The reason for my original post was mostly out of frustration, as I had read on this and other forums of how people seemingly just walked into any hydraulic hose repair shop, of which there are many in my area, as this is farming country, and walked out with the rubber hose sections of their oil cooler lines replaced.
When I showed up at one of the shops yesterday and they told me 'No Way' I was irked and confused, and when I then went to 2 others and got the same response I just thought they didn't want to take the time to do the job.

Now I understand and after reading your responses I realize that it's not as simple as I originally thought.

Yes, I am glad they didn't even attempt to cobble something together, which could have blown apart and ruined my engine.

And, Yes, when I worked at NAPA, it was entirely their own system, so all the crimps would work. I understand that now.

Again, I guess I initially didn't understand all the nuances of the situation, I just thought it was pretty much a remove and replace type thing.

Thanks for all the suggestions, but all in all the rest of the car is in such fantastic condition, I think rather than rig something up, I will keep it factory. I think it's best, especially if I decide to sell the car in the future.

I know it sounded like I was blaming the shops in my initial post, in reality they did the right thing by refusing to work on it.

Thanks

Good call.

The chance of sudden immediate engine death, not to mention the fact that you just dumped 2 gallons of oil on the road in the process, make this a subsystem where compromise is not an option.

Reach out to vstech, he is parting out an 87 300TD as we speak (due to a poorly repaired accident damage leading to terminal rust cancer) and I suspect he's got a cooler and line set available as he indicated above.

Hmm
 

Is one of these what you are looking for??

Mercedes Benz 124 Oil Cooler | eBay

Mercedes 300D 300D 2 5 300SDL 350SDL Diesel Oil Cooler | eBay

Mercedes 86 87 300SDL Diesel Oil Cooler OM603 | eBay

Mercedes Benz W201 Oil Cooler 190E 190D 2015018101 1984 1993 | eBay


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I am getting ready to replace my rubber portions with clamps and hoses....what I can tell you, is that finding the correct hose is hot easy....it both has to hold the pressure plus the temp, the temp on my lower hose is 275°F....knowing what I researched in order to do my fix.....I can see why you can have an issue getting a shop to replace the rubber portion...

Oil Cooler Line Rubber Replacement..... - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Wow. Higher than I expected.

Thanks for realizing ( and posting ) the shops did the right thing.

The mods can change topic titles / create a replacement thread.

This situation is a perfect example of where the customer isn't always right. The goal is to provide a customer with what _need_ not what they think they _want_.

It is I thought it was the same as the car temperature..... But when I read the FSM it says the thermostat in the oil filter housing doesn't open to 275°f.....another thing of interest I found.....there is a pressure relief valve in the housing, if the pressure reads to high....it will open and send dirty oil right back into the engine....when the filter gets clogged.....

Or when the oil is cold and thick otherwise the filter element will crush. This is a standard item on all cars.

A low rent way to control an oil cooler, a bypass valve is placed across the cooler lines rather than a thermostat.

i.ve seen it leak past the oil filter tower o.ring when really cold. (still had 15w-40 in it).... sealed itself after a few minutes.

Thanks to all who responded to my situation.
I just placed an order online for a brand new oil cooler, I intend to reinstall my hoses as they were not leaking only the cooler was. I just wanted to replace everything at the same time but price prohibits that idea.

I considered a used cooler, but seeing how mine is used and it leaks there are no guaranties with a used part. It may last a long while or only a few hours/days/weeks. Seems like every time I try to save money with a used part it ends up costing me more in the end.

This is my wife's daily driver and she loves the car. I would like to consider selling it and buying something newer but she says 'Heck No'. She loves it and wants to keep it in good running order for a few more years, so we decided to go ahead and order a new part.

BTW I did take my leaky cooler to a radiator shop, they were not very interested in trying to fix it when I dropped it off, then they sat on it for a solid week and never got around to looking at it, also the 'screwed nipples' I ordered from the dealer were not the correct size when they arrived as someone mentioned they might not be, so that forced my decision as well.

Thanks Again.

If I didn't have bad luck, I would have no luck at all
 

Well, I thought all my problems were solved, when I finally decided to go ahead and spend the $$$ and order a brand new oil cooler for the wife's 87 300D, since her old one was leaking and the threads where the lines hook up were destroyed after taking the lines off. The 'screwed nipples' I ordered from the dealer were too small, and it was suggested by another member that they might be. I have a call into my Mercedes parts desk and they are trying to find out if the correct ones exist for the w124 cars, but I'm not holding my breath.
Anyway, the new cooler arrived yesterday, I took it out of the box and was ready to install it and get this car back on the road as it has been down over 2 weeks dealing with this fiasco. And I began to realize something was not right. I laid the 2 coolers on the work bench side by side and the new one is exactly backwards, or flip flopped.
The original one hangs from 2 pins at the top, there is a stud on the right where it hooks to a rubber stabilizer link, and the lines attach on the left. The new one has the stud on the left and the lines attach on the right. I went back to the website I ordered it from and they shipped me the correct part number, the picture they show is exactly like my original one. I even did a search by looking up the part number on the box and found the specs at the manufacturers website and it shows the correct one. My best guess is somehow it was not boxed correctly at the factory in Germany. This is usually how my luck goes, and what are the odds. I am still trying to get in touch with the parts warehouse I ordered it from, I guess that's what I get from ordering online, to see if they want to ship me another, or just return it for a refund. I am sort of afraid the same thing will happen again, if they ship me another, maybe they misboxed an entire batch of them.

I am thinking the one I got is for a RH drive car, as everything would be on the opposite side of the car. I could probably rig it up to work somehow, the lines are long enough, but I would have to rig the stabilizer side bracket up differently somehow, plus it just irkes me that I got the wrong part.

Whatever, I am no closer to having this car back on the road as I was 2 weeks ago, incredibly frustrating. I sometimes I wonder if my brain is functioning correctly by trying to keep a 26 year old car on the road as a daily driver. :mad:

If memory serves me correctly the 603 coolers have the line attachments outboard and the late 602 coolers have the line attachments inboard? I know there is a difference that means you can't mix them.

I have sold a dozen 603 used coolers & lines on ebay, with no come backs (yet!) I'd have bought the used one.

If you pull the Oil Cooler yourself at the Junk Yard when it comes time to pay they ask you if you want to buy the Warranty/Insurance on the Part. That is good for about 1-2 Weeks.
If you bought a used Oil Cooler from a yard that pulls the Part for you they will either warrant it or you will again be given a chance to bury a warranty.
About 4 years ago an Oil Cooler out here was $20 if you removed it yourself. The Warranty is like 10% of the cost of the part so that neither is much compared to the cost of a New Oil Cooler.

I figured it out. While looking at used oil coolers on ebay, one for a 190D popped up, it is exactly backwards of mine, just like the one I received. The MB part# on mine is 2015018201. The MB part# for the 190D cooler is 2015018101 only 1 digit is different. It must have been misboxed at the factory.
All in all I just want my money back and I will try to find a used one and save some $$.
I have had a brain storm on the line set as well, if it works all the parts should be available at your local parts store. It may take me a few days to get it all figured out and put together then I will post back if it works.

I need a used cooler 1st and fast. Doesn't even matter if the threads are messed up on the connectors with my new idea. Gonna post a parts wanted thread see if I get any response.

Thanks.

After reading all the posts and links, a few comments:

1. Post #22 gave a link to 15 mm hose. The question is how to buy small quantities.

2. Hose clamps are fine, if you use the proper type. The after-market AC in my 65 used hose clamps and I never had a leak, indeed had to cut and peel the hoses off the nipples. AC sees up to 250 psig and 200 F. Cheap screw-clamps can cock sideways. The factory used crimp collars because it is fast and clean w/ an automated machine. They even do that on the heater hoses in my newer Mopars. I have an AC collar crimper I could use if I find a ferrule to match the hose.

3. The stainless steel braid is great mechanical protection. One of my oil cooler lines was cut by the power steering belt, when the belt flipped over (broken compressor belt tangled in it). Even if I used rubber hose, I would like to find steel braid sleeve to slip over. For now, I wrapped steel wire around my oil cooler hose, aka the power steering cooler hose below it. After my failure, I just swapped cooler hoses since had a spare, but it wasn't easy since had to remove a motor mount and fish the beast in.

IMO
 

The best answer is a crimped hose Ferrel.

Stainless Steel T Bolt Clamps are the only good/safe long term alternative on engine oil cooler hoses.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Stainless+Steel+T+Bolt+Clamps&client=firefox-a&hs=4J7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=74mGUsXoF4jl4AP9kICQDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=859

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