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-   -   Broken valve guide....what to do... (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/346025-broken-valve-guide-what-do.html)

cooljjay 11-12-2013 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoker (Post 3237203)
buying a driving car locally and taking the engine and other bits.

HA stop lying to yourself we all already know, if you pick up another car....there is no way you would take it to bits :D

And by this time next year, we all expect you to be just as bad as VS....we are already taking bets :P

Stretch 11-12-2013 02:18 AM

NC = North Carolina right?

Who knows someone up that way that can help?

Smoker 11-14-2013 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch (Post 3237283)
NC = North Carolina right?

Who knows someone up that way that can help?

Well, I decided since I can't toss $$s at anyone to do it for me I'd do it meself!! I'd rather give the $6-$700 labor to an indie/private wrencher but I live in NC....

Popped the head bolts out, quite a bit less torque then I expected. I've got a titanium shoulder thanks to the deer and not much upper body strength but a breaker bar and simple body weight broke them loose.

Used the shop crane to lift the head. Since I'm solo the first thing that happened is my rig to hold the timing chain slipped...natch...but I'd zip tied the chain together at the lowest point I could reach also so doubt it was able to jump. I will of course check cam and crank marks before hooking everything back up.

Brought the head up an inch or so and it stopped moving. Looked all around, finally spied a bracket under the turbo manifold mount attaching exhaust manifold to motor. Removed that and up we went again for a bit...saw the turbo oil inlet line was moving up with head, figured that wasn't right and spotted the attachment on the back of the 'lifting' bracket.

With that sorted, lifted again and this time nothing pulled back. Set the head on the garage deck and looked at the lovely cylinders. Piston #3 looked like it just came out of the factory. Clean as can be with not a stain or mark on it. 3 of them had various degrees of carbon build up, and of course naughty #2 was quite oiled up.

Tomorrow I'll pull the manifolds and bits off of the head, prepare the block surface, and wait for the replacement head. Lovely (and single) daughter will come over to help put the new head on. Good hint there for any of you 20something guys that want to get in some wrenching time (i did not say wenching).

Stretch 11-15-2013 04:21 AM

Why do you want to get rid of your daughter? She sounds like a great girl if she'll help her Dad with a cylinder head swap!

Oh and tip for your daughter - most of the 20 something lads here on this forum go weak at the knees when they see a "chick driving stick" (I don't know why - it is normal here but in the land of automatics it seems to be a big thing)

Skippy 11-15-2013 06:52 AM

He doesn't want to lose a daughter, he wants to gain a son. I'd offer to help, but I'm on the wrong side of the country.

Smoker 11-15-2013 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch (Post 3239340)
Why do you want to get rid of your daughter? She sounds like a great girl if she'll help her Dad with a cylinder head swap!

Oh and tip for your daughter - most of the 20 something lads here on this forum go weak at the knees when they see a "chick driving stick" (I don't know why - it is normal here but in the land of automatics it seems to be a big thing)

Of course she drives a standard! :) Gave her one of the little 3cyl convertibles with 5speed stick.

Smoker 11-15-2013 02:55 PM

quick silly question....
 
So...is there any way to determine if the chain slacked enough to 'fall off' the bottom gear during the head removal or is it simply a case of reinstall head and see if it refits to paint marks?

Recoverable error if it has or remove engine required?

Love to see someone invent some type of holder tool that fits in the channel and keeps the chain tight while you pull the head for us solo DIY types.

Stretch 11-15-2013 03:35 PM

You should be OK.

(In the event of your nightmare scenario you could just drain the oil and take off the lower oil pan to gain access)

What you might want to do before you take the head off is to do the 2mm lift method and see if you need either an offset key or a new chain.

Smoker 11-15-2013 04:05 PM

Thanks again Army, you're a great source of wisdom! :). I did do the test prior to pulling the head, less than one degree off so didn't plan on a chain job.

A bit miffed with the FSM that it didn't mention anything about the timing chain slack in the head removal section. I only initially did the zip tie and tie off because it's what I do with any OHC head removal. After it slipped I did some searching and found notes about the chain falling off during a roll-in but still nothing on head replacement....hence the question.

As you noted earlier, the second time will be easier.

Stretch 11-15-2013 04:46 PM

Oh no! Has this nightmare scenario happened? (I'm now confused)

The tensioner is off isn't it?

Smoker 11-15-2013 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch (Post 3239643)
Oh no! Has this nightmare scenario happened? (I'm now confused)

The tensioner is off isn't it?

Oh yes, I removed head following FSM, so tensioner spring was already out. After I removed the cam gear I put a zip tie between the two sides of the chain at the lowest point I could reach and snugged it tight, then I took a bit of 10ga wire and tied the chain tight against the side of the head (using the tach amp). Took a break for a couple of days.

When it came time to pull the head, I undid the wire and held it by hand and cranked up on the shop crane, and being the talented person I am managed to let go of the wire, so the chain slumped.

I then finished removing the head and put it on the shop floor, tied the chain back off to the tach amp.

whunter 11-15-2013 05:13 PM

Oh my goodness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoker (Post 3239182)
Well, I decided since I can't toss $$s at anyone to do it for me I'd do it meself!! I'd rather give the $6-$700 labor to an indie/private wrencher but I live in NC....

Popped the head bolts out, quite a bit less torque then I expected. I've got a titanium shoulder thanks to the deer and not much upper body strength but a breaker bar and simple body weight broke them loose.

Used the shop crane to lift the head. Since I'm solo the first thing that happened is my rig to hold the timing chain slipped...natch...but I'd zip tied the chain together at the lowest point I could reach also so doubt it was able to jump. I will of course check cam and crank marks before hooking everything back up.

Brought the head up an inch or so and it stopped moving. Looked all around, finally spied a bracket under the turbo manifold mount attaching exhaust manifold to motor. Removed that and up we went again for a bit...saw the turbo oil inlet line was moving up with head, figured that wasn't right and spotted the attachment on the back of the 'lifting' bracket.

With that sorted, lifted again and this time nothing pulled back. Set the head on the garage deck and looked at the lovely cylinders. Piston #3 looked like it just came out of the factory. Clean as can be with not a stain or mark on it. 3 of them had various degrees of carbon build up, and of course naughty #2 was quite oiled up.

Tomorrow I'll pull the manifolds and bits off of the head, prepare the block surface, and wait for the replacement head. Lovely (and single) daughter will come over to help put the new head on. Good hint there for any of you 20something guys that want to get in some wrenching time (i did not say wenching).

You do realize:
Pictures of your daughter working (getting greasy) would draw marriage proposals..

:D :D

.

Smoker 11-15-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter (Post 3239660)
You do realize:
Pictures of your daughter working (getting greasy) would draw marriage proposals..

:D :D

.

I shall station the wife with a camera!! 22 and single, I want grandkids dammit!!! :)

whunter 11-15-2013 05:24 PM

Request pictures
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoker (Post 3239182)
Well, I decided since I can't toss $$s at anyone to do it for me I'd do it meself!! I'd rather give the $6-$700 labor to an indie/private wrencher but I live in NC....

Popped the head bolts out, quite a bit less torque then I expected. I've got a titanium shoulder thanks to the deer and not much upper body strength but a breaker bar and simple body weight broke them loose.

Used the shop crane to lift the head. Since I'm solo the first thing that happened is my rig to hold the timing chain slipped...natch...but I'd zip tied the chain together at the lowest point I could reach also so doubt it was able to jump. I will of course check cam and crank marks before hooking everything back up.

Brought the head up an inch or so and it stopped moving. Looked all around, finally spied a bracket under the turbo manifold mount attaching exhaust manifold to motor. Removed that and up we went again for a bit...saw the turbo oil inlet line was moving up with head, figured that wasn't right and spotted the attachment on the back of the 'lifting' bracket.

With that sorted, lifted again and this time nothing pulled back. Set the head on the garage deck and looked at the lovely cylinders. Piston #3 looked like it just came out of the factory. Clean as can be with not a stain or mark on it. 3 of them had various degrees of carbon build up, and of course naughty #2 was quite oiled up.

Tomorrow I'll pull the manifolds and bits off of the head, prepare the block surface, and wait for the replacement head. Lovely (and single) daughter will come over to help put the new head on. Good hint there for any of you 20something guys that want to get in some wrenching time (i did not say wenching).

If you have issues or lack time, send the pictures to me.

* Cylinder head.
* Engine block.
* Any damage.

Note: Don't junk the old head, I may buy it.

Thanks.
.

Stretch 11-15-2013 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoker (Post 3239659)
Oh yes, I removed head following FSM, so tensioner spring was already out. After I removed the cam gear I put a zip tie between the two sides of the chain at the lowest point I could reach and snugged it tight, then I took a bit of 10ga wire and tied the chain tight against the side of the head (using the tach amp). Took a break for a couple of days.

When it came time to pull the head, I undid the wire and held it by hand and cranked up on the shop crane, and being the talented person I am managed to let go of the wire, so the chain slumped.

I then finished removing the head and put it on the shop floor, tied the chain back off to the tach amp.

I'm still hopeful that you'll be alright. The number of links between the cam cog and the timing device is important and then the number from the timing device to the crank cog...

...if the other side flops about it shouldn't be too much of a big deal.

When you put the replacement head back on fit the camshaft towers and then fit the chain and the cog on the camshaft. Do not fit the rocker arms just yet. Fit the tensioner and then spin the crank round to make sure you are absolutely happy. With the rocker arms out the valves will not open and then will not hit pistons which is the primary concern.

For fuel timing => Which IP do you have? Have you got a port on the side for a RIV / A-B timing light tester? If so a visual check can be made with that too...


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