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  #1  
Old 11-15-2013, 10:23 AM
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Injector ?

Is there a difference between injectors from a turbo motor and a non turbo motor? Can I put injectors from a non turbo motor into a turbo motor?

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  #2  
Old 11-15-2013, 10:42 AM
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Generally, yes. However, I suggest getting a matched set. I am assuming you're talking about the OM617.9XX engine injector. There are actually 8 flavors of injectors. There is the longer top part type, the longer bottom part type, there's the longer spring and shorter spring inside type for both of the above. Then, you have those stamped 115 BAR and 135 BAR. There are some minute variations in the springs, that is, comparing apples with apples. Depending on spring length determine the internals. You cannot mix and match. There is a total of 8 parts to the mechancial diesel MB injector (made by Bosch) for the sharp shooters out there. You can generally only replace half of those parts. You can swap the nozzle, which is actually 2 pieces, the nozzle and pintle since they wear out after 100 to 150K miles. You can change the shim to adjust the PSI. You can swap out the spring. They fatigue and depending on their lenght, you can make small changes to the PSI. Shims are stepped by .05 unless you have a large collection of used shims which have "worn" down a hair. Not sure how that happens, but it does. If you want to fine tune the PSI and pop pressure, you can swap the spring if you are striving for +/- 10 to 15 PSI vs. FSM 50. IMO, anything under 25 PSI is overkill for a balanced set. Best I got was 10 PSI and that took about 4 or so hours. Somewhat unpleasant.

Now, I have seen a lot of injector sets with 115 and 135 BAR mixed and matched. I have seen sets where there has been actually a number of different types of bodies. I have seen them with non-MB injectors. For peace of mind, try to get a matched set. Just my .02 cents.

I have actually seen 1 instance on a car where I can verify that no one ever messed with those injectors. So, that occured at the factory and I am guessing it was just a boo boo.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:27 AM
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Don't put 115 bar injectors in your 617 turbo engine. The lower pop pressure will effective advance your timing and put it out of spec. If you rebuild the 115 bar injectors to pop at 135 bar, that is fine but you want them to pop at the correct pressure.
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1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by eatont9999 View Post
Don't put 115 bar injectors in your 617 turbo engine. The lower pop pressure will effective advance your timing and put it out of spec. If you rebuild the 115 bar injectors to pop at 135 bar, that is fine but you want them to pop at the correct pressure.
If I did not directly state it, e.g., pop pressure and a BALANCE set of injectors, yes you cannot have a nominal 1,650 PSI and a nominal 1,975 PSI. So, to make sure what I posted is not taken out of context, you cannot use a 115 BAR injector which is set at 115 BAR and use that in your turbo engine, and vice versa.

However, you can clearly set a 115 BAR injector at 135 BAR and it will work.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greazzer View Post
If I did not directly state it, e.g., pop pressure and a BALANCE set of injectors, yes you cannot have a nominal 1,650 PSI and a nominal 1,975 PSI. So, to make sure what I posted is not taken out of context, you cannot use a 115 BAR injector which is set at 115 BAR and use that in your turbo engine, and vice versa.

However, you can clearly set a 115 BAR injector at 135 BAR and it will work.
Right.

I was not under the impression that the OP plans on rebuilding or adjusting the injectors, so I gave him a very simple answer.
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1991 F250 super-cab 7.3 IDI. (rebuilt by me) Banks Sidewinder turbo, hydroboost brakes, new IP and injectors.
2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:17 PM
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No not 617, 602 non turbo to a 602 turbo motor, I can get all 5 injectors for $30.00 and only 166,000 miles on them. What do you think? I have 300,000 on the set of injectors I have now.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Diesel View Post
No not 617, 602 non turbo to a 602 turbo motor, I can get all 5 injectors for $30.00 and only 166,000 miles on them. What do you think? I have 300,000 on the set of injectors I have now.
The same applies to 602 engines and injectors. Unfortunately, you would have to disassemble and shim/replace the spring and pop test.

They will fit in the engine and it will run but not run properly.
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1991 F250 super-cab 7.3 IDI. (rebuilt by me) Banks Sidewinder turbo, hydroboost brakes, new IP and injectors.
2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatont9999 View Post
Right.

I was not under the impression that the OP plans on rebuilding or adjusting the injectors, so I gave him a very simple answer.
LOL ... simpler is generally better.
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2013, 03:54 PM
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Argle bargle one of the injectors in my 78 300D looks different than the others, I wonder if this is the reason why one cylinder always seems to be late firing up from a cold start
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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Buy them, and send them to Greazzer for balancing. He's got good prices and does a fine job (but he refrains from hawking his product in every thread out of politeness).
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Simpler=Better View Post
Buy them, and send them to Greazzer for balancing. He's got good prices and does a fine job (but he refrains from hawking his product in every thread out of politeness).
Do you know how much he charges for 5 injectors?
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatont9999 View Post
The same applies to 602 engines and injectors. Unfortunately, you would have to disassemble and shim/replace the spring and pop test.

They will fit in the engine and it will run but not run properly.
That would be a personal choice.

When I worked in a Fuel Injection Shop we never replaced those Springs during a rebuild unless they were broken or showed signs that the Coils had been rubbing on the sides.
No customer ever came back with an issue involving an Injector Spring.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aieeegrunt View Post
Argle bargle one of the injectors in my 78 300D looks different than the others, I wonder if this is the reason why one cylinder always seems to be late firing up from a cold start
This is on the 1985 and later Injectors that have the 2 external Fuel Return Nipples:
The manual has that the 2 versions of the Injector Bodies can be mixed on the same Engine as long as the Opening/Pop pressures are set within the limits for the Engine Application.

You cannot mix the 2 type of Injectors parts together as they have different dimensions.

Another issue is that if you look in the Manual at some point they increased the size of the centrally drilled hole that is in the Injector Pintel. So if you installed an older Injector on a newer Engine it could have the smaller Hole.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Diesel View Post
No not 617, 602 non turbo to a 602 turbo motor, I can get all 5 injectors for $30.00 and only 166,000 miles on them. What do you think? I have 300,000 on the set of injectors I have now.
My though is that somewhere between 100k and 150K miles your Injector Nozzles are usually worn out.

So for me the $30 dollars per Injector would be better spent towards buying new Injector Nozzles and having the Injectors rebuilt.

It has been about 4 years since I pulled any but Injectors at the local Yard where $5 each. The cost may have gone up since then but I doubt if it has gone up to $30 each.
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
My though is that somewhere between 100k and 150K miles your Injector Nozzles are usually worn out.

So for me the $30 dollars per Injector would be better spent towards buying new Injector Nozzles and having the Injectors rebuilt.

It has been about 4 years since I pulled any but Injectors at the local Yard where $5 each. The cost may have gone up since then but I doubt if it has gone up to $30 each.
No, $30.00 for all 5.

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