722.117 starting in first - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ichris93 · #16 12-03-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

My former 77 300d definitely started in 2nd unless engaging the kickdown switch or dropping into L and then back into D when it started in 1st. Hell of a jolt when going into 2nd.

I get that jolt, everyday, multiple times a day.

Zacharias · #17 12-03-2013, 11:40 PM

Dunno what to say. I had two 240Ds and currently have a 300td and they all started/start in first when in D, no shifting down into L, no doubt.

The 240Ds were 1982 and 1983 models, the '83 had a .117. The 300td is a 1980 and had a .118 initially. It actually now has the .117 from the '83 240.

Incidentally, I had the neck-snapping thing on the 1-2 the whole time the .117 was in the 240d. I finally seem to have adjusted it out to where I have a much earlier, gentler shift by using this procedure.

ichris93 · #18 12-03-2013, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Dunno what to say. I had two 240Ds and currently have a 300td and they all started/start in first when in D, no shifting down into L, no doubt.

The 240Ds were 1982 and 1983 models, the '83 had a .117. The 300td is a 1980 and had a .118 initially. It actually now has the .117 from the '83 240.

Incidentally, I had the neck-snapping thing on the 1-2 the whole time the .117 was in the 240d. I finally seem to have adjusted it out to where I have a much earlier, gentler shift by using this procedure.

I don't either.

I can only speak of my experience and what the German manual says.

cooljjay · #19 12-04-2013, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichris93

I get that jolt, everyday, multiple times a day.

I had that exact same problem....all my shifts were hard and at high rpm.....what fixed it was adjusting the rod from the injection pump to the linkage on the valve cover and replacing my kickdown switch and solenoid.....getting the trans fluid to the correct level and finally fixing that small bushing on the pressure rod....

Since your transmission strictly relays on vacuum....then you must confirm the trans is getting the correct vacuum pressure.....

Zacharias · #20 12-04-2013, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichris93

I don't either.

I can only speak of my experience and what the German manual says.

I guess I would ask: Is the info in the German manual correct for all markets?

During the summer, when my TD was at the shop getting the governor sorted out, a member from Europe posted info from the German manual for the .117, which ended up being wrong for my trans. At the time I assumed the manual had an error.

ichris93 · #21 12-08-2013, 09:33 PM

Quote:

It depends whether it is vacuum-controlled or rod-controlled.
Rod-controlled transmission 722.117 start in second gear,
vacuum-controlled start in first gear (but stand in second gear).
Changeover year was around 1980.

WHY?!?!?! the 1-2 shift is so obnoxious most of the time.

Stretch · #22 12-09-2013, 02:53 AM

So which do you have then? Vacuum only or rod and a screw?

ichris93 · #23 12-09-2013, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

So which do you have then? Vacuum only or rod and a screw?

Vacuum only.

Zacharias · #24 12-09-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichris93

WHY?!?!?! the 1-2 shift is so obnoxious most of the time.

If the 1-2 is obnoxious there is a vacuum issue. I had the same problem and getting the vacuum set up correctly has now given me a smooth shift.

On the vacuum-only-control transmissions, shift points are determined by a governor (that is not externally adjustable), and by the vacuum setup, which is. With the vacuum there are four or more variables:

- first, that the actual vacuum routing and connections under the hood are correctly set up and not leaking
- second, that the white valve(s) on the valve cover (I forget the correct name for them) are functional
- third, that the vacuum control valve on the injection pump is working properly (link to follow for this)- fourth, that someone hasn't messed around with the modulator and cranked it up (but I would think this would show up as all shifts being late/hard)

As you are saying only 1-2 is bad, I would be assessing stuff under the hood.

My remarks are based on my own long road to sort out the .117 in my 300d.

Can you take some photos of how the vacuum lines are currently routed under the hood?

Stretch · #25 12-09-2013, 11:42 AM

When my 300D (with a 722.118 vacuum only transmission) was up and running many many moons ago I did notice that "Grandma" indecisive pussy footing about driving gave more of a lurch from 1-2 but with a bit of vigor my man I had no trouble!

ichris93 · #26 12-09-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

If the 1-2 is obnoxious there is a vacuum issue. I had the same problem and getting the vacuum set up correctly has now given me a smooth shift.

On the vacuum-only-control transmissions, shift points are determined by a governor (that is not externally adjustable), and by the vacuum setup, which is. With the vacuum there are four or more variables:

- first, that the actual vacuum routing and connections under the hood are correctly set up and not leaking
- second, that the white valve(s) on the valve cover (I forget the correct name for them) are functional
- third, that the vacuum control valve on the injection pump is working properly (link to follow for this)- fourth, that someone hasn't messed around with the modulator and cranked it up (but I would think this would show up as all shifts being late/hard)

As you are saying only 1-2 is bad, I would be assessing stuff under the hood.

My remarks are based on my own long road to sort out the .117 in my 300d.

Can you take some photos of how the vacuum lines are currently routed under the hood?

Those are 3/2 way valves. I have two of them. They were leaking and I was told they were only for EGR so I have the removed. This is my current routing.

It does make a difference depending on how hard I ride the throttle but in traffic conditions you can imagine how one should ride the throttle and that is when it is most obnoxious.

Zacharias · #27 12-09-2013, 01:33 PM

Sorry your diagram and notes aren't clear to me, but as far as I can tell the routing is wrong.

I need to see a pic of the actual lines, in particular showing the arrangement on the VCV, to say anything.

I DO remember someone telling you those 3/2 valves were for EGR only. I did not agree when that was said, but wasn't in the mood to argue. Today I guess I am

.

I found this post from Govert, over on Benzworld. Govert is probably most knowledgable guy when it comes to these vac-control transmissions:

ON the 3/2 valve:

Quote:

It is necessary for the non-turbo models from 1980 onwards. It is used for standing in 2nd and taking off in 1st gear. For the turbo models it is EGR only.

ichris93 · #28 12-09-2013, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

I need to see a pic of the actual lines, in particular showing the arrangement on the VCV, to say anything.

I DO remember someone telling you those 3/2 valves were for EGR only. I did not agree when that was said, but wasn't in the mood to argue. Today I guess I am

.

I found this post from Govert, over on Benzworld. Govert is probably most knowledgable guy when it comes to these vac-control transmissions:

ON the 3/2 valve:

I believe you about the 3/2 way valves. Question, are both of them needed for transmission? They are about $24 from PP and they do NOT show they brand so they are probably MTC and do not qualify for free shipping.

This would make sense as to why I don't think my car stands in 2nd. It can be so hard to hold the car in place sometimes.

Zacharias · #29 12-09-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichris93

I believe you about the 3/2 way valves. Question, are both of them needed for transmission?

That I can't answer for sure, as my car only has one of them. However, a semi-educated guess would be: yes.

Feel lucky they are $24. They were NLA for a while and I paid $59 to some shop on eBay for one when I could not find them for love nor money anywhere (in 2009).