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Mechanic tool set recommendation?
I went to Sears and picked up a 309 piece mechanics set. When I got home and starting removing the set from the box, I noticed they didn't look like previous Craftsman tools I had collected over the years. I then discovered the reason.....they are made in China instead of the USA. :mad:
So, back to Sears these are going. My local Ace store has a set of 193 Craftsman tools for $99 this month (this seems like a good price to me). I checked them out and the box states made in "USA" but I'm going to open the box to verify if everything really is. Would this be a good starter set for working on our vehicles? Here is what is included: "CRAFTSMAN" MECHANICS TOOL SET
Thoughts on how suitable this is for our vehicles? Are there other recommended sets? |
I have this set and I am very happy with it Sears.com
I think they carry their lifetime warranty regardless of country of origin. |
the SAE parts will not be very useful, and are you sure the 3/8" sockets start at 13? that's odd, all my 3/8" sets start at 8mm....
if the sockets are quality, then they will be ok, but you'll need more 3/8" sockets. you will also need a set of allen sockets, both long and short, not bits that fit an adapter, but actual allen sockets. also, a set of torx sockets, and a set of inverse torx sockets, and a set of xzn "tripple square" sockets. I got THIS SET recently, and notice that the 3/8" sockets start at 6mm and go up to 22mm 3516 6 MMnSOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43533 7 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43536 8 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43541 9 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43542 10 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43543 11 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43544 12 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43545 13 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43546 14 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43547 15 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43570 16 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43548 17 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43579 18 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43549 19 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43580 20 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43584 21 MM SOCKET 6PT STD METRIC 3/8" 43585 22 MM |
With the 606 you're going to need hex bit sockets and possibly Torx bit sockets as well. I'm not sure socket is the right word since the business end is fits into rather than around the the bolt head.
There's a bunch of other things you'll need like screwdrivers, regular pliers, locking pliers, hammers, etc, as I'm sure you know. I mention them for sizing the handy carry case. Sixto 87 300D |
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Actually, it is all based on what you can afford, in a lot of cases. Years ago, I had many Harbor Freight tools due to being unemployed and starting a new business. Over the years, I have upgraded many of these tools and had the HFtools as back up loaners. I've found that certain tools needed upgrading quicker than others. These were usually anything with a ratchet or adjustment, such as a torque wrench.
Made in China, is usually a kind of a you get what you pay for experience. I've had good usage out of Titan and Klutch from Northern Tool but have literally broken wrenches by hand from Harbor Freight. I got so frustrated with a Harbor Freight ratchet that it was "helicoptered" into the street. For USA-made tools, the hard part is finding them sometimes. Many have to be located by going to their various company websites and finding a store in your area. Of course there are the tool trucks but unless you work in a commercial shop, they may be harder to get in touch with. If the objection isn't cost, do a search on Craigslist. It is phenomenal how many "toolboxes with tools" are on there, and usually high-end tools. I've seen everything from $200-4000. There are many higher-end wrench and socket sets, usually metric, as well. A decent set of combination wrenches, ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers and pliers will go a long way to get you started. And as anyone who has worked on cars for a while, there will always be more, and better, tools you "need". |
Sears tools aren't what they used to be. Husky and Kobalt are on-par with them now. Husky or Kobalt(one for sure, maybe both?) will replace a broken Sears tool with an equivalent in their brand. I have older Sears stuff from 15+ years ago that has served me well, but I wouldn't buy there now.
Most of the Harbor Freight hand tools are better than they get credit for. Since it sounds like you're not doing this professionally, I would honestly start there and replace with higher quality as needed, if needed. Don't sell the duplicates, you'll need them! |
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I think they are also commonly used on head bolts as well? http://www.lellaautosport.com/assets/images/xzn12.jpg |
I remember Jeremy saying there are Torx head screws in and around the 606. Isn't the airbag held to the steering wheel by Torx head screws?
For XZN, The $10 4-pack of 1/2" hex XZN bits has served me well from cylinder head to rear suspension. I have 4 sets just in case since they get borrowed a lot :) Sixto 87 300D |
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I bought a nice set of XZN bits from amazon for working on my 124's rear multi-links this weekend. They should arrive today sometime. |
Does the '95 E300 use the same fan clutch tools as the 603? If so, this is useful -
Pulley Spinning Tool I use hanger wire but a nice set of gauge cluster hooks is... well... nice. Sixto 87 300D |
HF tools are ok for some things. the quality of the steel is low quality, and to make up for it the thickness of the tool will be thicker. see it on Sockets. open/box wrenches sometimes.
I broke a 17mm socket 1/2 inch drive trying to remove a leg bolt in PNP. broke a 13mm 3/8 drive inpact socket trying to remove a nut off the oil filter housing on a 617 engine, by hand with a ratchet. never used this set as an impact ever. split down 3 sides. :( The only Craftsman socket I ever broke was my fault. I have noticed the quality of Craftsman tools going down hill, especially their ratchets. the older tools were good. The tang that flips it from tightening to loosening is now plastic, and the inner gears will slip or the wrench will free wheel. have had 3 of the same ratchet do this. the older ones never had the problem. Ya I know they have a lifetime warranty, but still...... Craftsman use to offer a rebuild kit for the Ratchets. now they just swap for a rebuild one. What ever brand of tools you buy, all depends on how much you will be using them. weekender vs a every day wrencher like in a shop. Buying a set of tools, then you get a lot of tools you probably never use, like SAE. Everything is going to Metric. Those blow molded tool boxes are a PITA from my prospective, that is what you get with a lot of sets. With Christmas getting closer, keep an eye on Sears sales, there will be 50% off sales, and then after New Years there will be some. The Gear wrenches are a good buy compared to the off brand ones. I usually pick up a set every year a 1/2 price. SK tools are nice tools also, a bit pricy and USA made as far as I know. Start looking at garage sales, Swap meets and Flea Markets for good used tools. I picked up an Old Snap-On 3/8 drive for $5. the stamp marking on it shows it was made in 1944. it was pretty well worn out, but took it to a Snap-On guy and he replaced the guts under their warranty. Found another Snap-on 3/8 long handle made for the Military for $25. All my tools are an accumulation I assembled over the pats 50+ years. Charlie |
I looked into this in depth several years ago when I was buying tools for EPA. At that time Craftsman was made by the lowest bidder and it varied between (mostly) Stanley and Danaherr, a large US tool maker. I know that the Chinese have gotten some of the contracts now but I have no idea of the standards or quality.
I can't urge you strongly enough to check out your local pawn shops. They generally get sets (combination end wrenches, sockets, etc.) and you may have to shop for a while to gather all that you want but you can end up with Snap-On for the price of Craftsman or maybe even less. Don't worry if they're worn out - you just flag down the truck and the Snap-On guy will make it right. Every 10 years or so I get a fresh 3/8 drive flex ratchet as the hinge loosens up. And once you hold a Snap-On in your hands and use it, you'll GET it. There's a different feel and I find I have an enhanced confidence level with fine tools. Mac, Cornwell, and some of the other premium brands are also quite nice. I have Mac screwdrivers as everyone else in the shop I was working in at the time had Snap-On and I wanted to be able to see mine from a distance. That was 1982 and they're still good! Dan |
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Sixto 87 300D |
Thanks for all the info. I went back to Sears and exchanged the China made set for a 250 piece USA made one. I also bought a laser thermometer and 8" Bionic wrench which looks handy .
I'm going to keep my eyes open for used pieces at garage sales, etc. to fill in my set. |
bionic wrench? kind like a bulky auto adjusting channel lock plier? I like the Knipex locking plier very high quality tool...
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Charlie :xmas: |
You learn from experience. Not being a working mechanic myself I do not need or desire the best like snap on. They in general are just overkill financially for random occassional use.
Sockets like Taiwan black oxidized impact sockets give decent service. I would not buy a Taiwan or Chinese chrome plated socket still unless someone told me they had gotten a lot better than in the past. They were just junk some time ago in my opinion again. Junk is just junk and frustrating as well as dangerous. Sure I have some 12 point stuff but even though they may be a little easier to use have nowhere near the gripping power of six point in my opinion. Over time you just seem to add to the tools as necessity dictates. Part of owning tools is to develop good habits about returning them to where they should be so you can locate them in a moment if required. I am far from perfect in doing this myself. Loaning any of your tools out is or has become a thing of the past unfortunately. They seem to require chasing or you will not see them again. . This was not always so in the past in general. If I were to borrow a tool from someone it is returned quickly. The person was good enough to loan it so I should be good enough to return it promptly. Also that person does not mind loaning me something again as long as I do not make a chronic habit of it. Now one of my son in laws who borrows tools from me is another story. I am not particularily smart but know several trades fairly well. My son in law borrowed some of my electrical tools. I guess he misplaced them as a package of three junk cutter pliers for perhaps 15.00 came back to replace them. They only came back as I could not work on a job of his without them. Those specific high quality pliers today he lost or whatever are worth hundreds of dollars to replace. Tools are the only commodity that I feel are essentially free and make money. Every time I use them their original cost is returned usually the first time I use them. This over paying someone else to do the same job. So in essence I see tools as almost being free as from that point on they always are saving you a lot of money over paying someone else to do the jobs. There is a chance that using the tools will increase your self confidence at tackling things as well. This is priceless in itself if it happens. I just know they have paid for themselves countless times over the years. So a simple guy like me sees them not as an expense but rather as just a good investment. That they do not have a good resale value at the point I can no longer use them does not really matter. If I had not acquired them I would not be as well off or secure as we are today is an absolute certainty. An additional plus is that by and large I have enjoyed using them. I have given this a lot of thought and considered using it as a mental health program several years ago. It's value is while using tools the mind is fully occupied in general. |
Don't write off premium tools just yet. I do have Chinese impact sockets and lots of Harbor Freight electrical tools including 3 - 4 1/2" angle grinders. But once you use high quality hand tools you'll be sold. Remember, I'm suggesting that you keep an eye on your local pawn shops and buy sets cheaply when you see them.
I've replaced my cheaper stuff with Snap-On one set at a time and now I have truly wonderful tools. I bought my 3/8 drive flex ratchet off the tool truck in about 1968 and I still have it (or actually a replacement from the truck) and still LOVE picking it up every time I do. It's my "go-to" tool, along with my 1/4 drive ratchet that I've overloaded and abused more than I can say. Think about it - you won't regret it. Dan |
For a few more dollars, I have been very happy with Westward Tools. I was introduced to these by the guys at the machine shop I apprenticed in back in the day. Similar quality and feel to Snap-On, but priced a little lower. I believe they are american made.
WESTWARD products - Grainger Industrial Supply (If linking to outside sources contravenes forum policy, please disable link) |
I clicked on the Westward link to see what they are. I know granger has about everything you could want, but they are pricy for sure.
I checked out the long jack for a Eng Hoist, says made in China, and a big price. same thing at HF is about $60, and way less on sale. Did a Google search and some info on these tools in this Forum. Westward Tools? - The Garage Journal Board Fastenal is another supplier with high mark up on tools. their tools are China also. Keep checking the Pawn Shops, Flea markets, Swap meets, Garage Sales, CL and E-Bay. I have seen several CL adds where a shop is closing and selling off everything, or a Mechanic that is throwing in the towel. He might even give you the towel. :) I bought a almost new Eng hoist for $65, same one on CL is $100 and much more. Charlie :santa2: |
As Charlie has said, Flea Markets and Garage sales are likely the best place to buy quality tools at a good price.
Sears does have good sales this time of year, and they still sell made in the USA tools. Sears introduced a 3 tear tool system.They released their "Craftsman Evolution" line of tools a few years back, they were made in china, and priced between Harbor Freight and Craftsman, only they held a Craftsman warranty. I was ok with this. I even bought some. Above this was the "Craftsman" line was all know and love. And above that the "Craftsman Professional" line, these tools have a fit and finish more like Snap-On. Today the Craftsman line is 60% or so made in China. My problem with this is why buy them when you could buy the Evo line? But on the plus side the Professional line is still all made in the USA, but you're now asked to pay more because you're getting not only a USA tool, but one with better fit an finish. I miss the old Craftsman, good price for a good tool for the everyday DIY person. |
Oh well, I guess I have crap taste in tools, my Westward stuff is going on 20 years, and I haven't had reason to complain. I like the feel of it.
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I've never seen Westward so I don't have an opinion. They look like they'd have a decent feel from the pics. Hey, if you enjoy using them and they're durable they're good tools!
Dan |
I've actually been impressed with the quality of the HF sockets and ratchets... they've survived many a pullapart trip, and lasted well in severe duty abuse. I have not tried the 3/8" drive sets, but the 1/2" sets are sturdy. and they go down to 10mm, so useful sizes.
My favorites are Mac, but I have several sets of Craftsman professional, and plenty of Gearwrench... for the critical parts, I often get either snap-on or Mac tools... torx, XZN, reverse torx, and flare wrenches, I only go TOP SHELF... no point wasting time/damaging a critical part with a cheap wrench... |
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My oldest Gearwrenches have "Taiwan" stamped prominently on them. I don't know if they're still made in Asia. They're good wrenches regardless of their origin. The farm stores around here sell a line of "better" wrenches under the Allen brand, which is also a Danaher line. They're very good, I think -- precise fit and very sturdy. The combos have a peened surface rather than polished, which I actually prefer. As for flea markets, my prize catch is an old Easco 1/4-inch ratchet. It's a Swiss watch compared to what Craftsman puts out these days. I've also got some Facom tools I picked up used somewhere. They look like they might have come out of a car's tool kit (nothing pretty about them) but I like them a lot. As for critical stuff like smaller hex or Torx bits, yes, gotta go with quality. I get SK from the local parts house or Hazet online. |
$200 at harbor freight will buy you all the tools you need with a few exceptions where you really want quality. Their socket drivers are good quality, their torque wrench clicker + digital combo is unbeatable for accuracy at almost any price level. Just go and spend half a day at the store picking out what looks to be the highest quality. Unlike Sears, all of their handtools are unlimited warranty. I have had many of their tools for over 8 years now without issue.
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Danahur is one of my customers. it's really REALLY loud on their build floor... safety glasses and earplugs are a MUST in there... it's really cool seeing the spools of steel being fed into these GIGANTIC press machines hammering out 2million sockets a day...
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For a year, I worked in the press/stamping facility at GM Lordstown. You can knock the Chevy Cruze all you want (if you do) but that process of taking a coil of steel and making it into car parts is awesome and the level of quality, reporting, control, data collection, management, is very impressive. If you or anyone can I highly a tour of a facility like that. A few co-workers, friends and I toured the GM facility near me and I think some of us might have had different career paths if we were exposed to that level of technology/engineering/science at a high school or even early college level. |
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Any tool thaty works for you is a great tool. Back about 1970 I bought some Wizard brand tools from Western Auto. Their 3/8" drive swivel head ratchet was my favorite one, so much it finally gave up the ghost. Don`t know who made them, and really don`t find any/much reference to them. I replaced it with a Craftsman swivel head, and cut the handle to the length of the Wizard. the Craftsman isn`t anywhere close to the Wizard. the swivel head flops around, the Wizard never did. Charlie :santa: |
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http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_14701.jpg |
I bought this double 1/4 x 3/8' 7" long ratchet from HF. Bought it mainly to reach behind the IP to remove the 4 10mm bolt off the Fuel Shut odd Valve. My Craftsman 1/4" ratchet is a bit short to get any leverage and to hold onto it. this HF one has been one I use quite often. almost never see it on sale.
I get a lot of the 20% off coupons in a lot of magazines etc... now Iam seeing 25% off coupons. 1/4" and 3/8" Drive x 7" Double Head Ratchet Wrench http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...image_9741.jpg Only: $15.99 I have been eye balling this one for a while, it $29.99, and never see it on sale. 1/4" and 3/8" Drive x 14-3/8" Double Head Flex Ratchet Wrench http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...image_9760.jpg I signed up for their "Inside Track Club" to get the better sales etc... it is on sale now for the Club members for $24.99. but with a 25% off coupon it would be $22.49. so forget the Inside Club thing it just a money maker for HF. later see the same items on sale normally for less. I have a few of the Easco open/box wrench, I heard they use to make the Ctaftsman tools, even looks like one. The Gearwrench are really some cool tools, how did we live w/o them? :confused: The one with the twisted handle is great, you are pulling on the flat side, instead of the edge. easier on the hands. Craftsman 7 pc. Standard Cross Force Reversible Ratcheting Combination Wrench Set - Tools - Wrenches - All Wrench Sets http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/ima...arpen=1&qlt=85 Quick View Keep an eye open the next couple weeks on Sears, there will be some great 1/2 off sales on tools. Charlie |
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