starvation or intrusion? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

adamkat22 · #1 12-28-2013, 05:17 AM

i just got an 83 td. i noticed immediately that the pre-filter was jam packed with some red sediment (rust?). auto store was out of spin on filters but i replaced the pre-filter and drove 120 or so miles. at my new location there was a spin on filter in stock, and so i replaced both filters (the pre-filter already had some new sediment built up). i put some gas in the tank (maybe that shook up sediment?) and about 10 miles after replacing the filters i stalled out on the side of hte highway. took off the fuel filter and it was half empty. i wondered if i had just not put it on tight enough and had gotten an air intrusion or if i was supposed to have gotten a new crush washer with my filter. i refilled filter, cracked injectors, bled air and was on my way. 10 miles later i stalled again. repeated same scenario, but this time it was studdering at idle a lot so i didn't take it back on the road and got towed home.

here are some things that i'm not sure are relevant but thought i'd mention:

-p.o. had all new viton lines put on because he was running it on bio diesel (not sure if thats whats currently in the tank)
-apparently car sat for 6 months then he drove it for the last two months after sitting.
-when i had the filter off i pumped the hand primer and only a few drops would come out. not sure if that is normall or significant?
-there was a crush washer on the filter but my new one didn't come with one, so its the same one...don't know if thats a problem.

here are the things i'm going to look at tommorow and will report back but, in the meantime, i'm in a hurry to get this thing running so i'd love any advice on other things i should also be looking into.

-check filter/screen in the tank. maybe drain all fuel and refill?
-replace crush washer if i'm supposed to
-disconnnect line going into spin on filter and see if i get spurts of fuel when key is turned but car isn't cranking

if there is anything else to also look into let me know...but thats what i've gleaned from old posts so far. thanks so much!

t walgamuth · #2 12-28-2013, 07:47 AM

I suggest moving this thread to our alternate fuel section.

Then, not knowing what might grow or be in WVO I'd be tempted to use biocide on your fuel, but I don't know if that works in WVO or not.

adamkat22 · #3 12-28-2013, 11:47 AM

it wasn't wvo it (possibly) could be biodiesel. was interested in troubleshooting fuel starvation/air intrusion in general but can move the thread if that seems best

cooljjay · #4 12-28-2013, 12:00 PM

If that car had bio in it and it sat for 6mo's....you will have some issues....depending if this was home brew bio or bought from a professional.....

I would first start by dropping the tank and steaming it....and replacing the strainer....blow out all the metal fuel lines....rebuild/replace the lift pump and replace the primer if it is the original twist in pump....

you would then need to look at rebuilding the injectors and maybe replacing the injection pump....

Then you will have to worry about all the excess carbon build up in the engine from the bio....chance are the valves are very tight and many adjustments will be needed...

ichris93 · #5 12-28-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamkat22

i put some gas in the tank

I hope you mean diesel.

charmalu · #6 12-28-2013, 12:40 PM

Sounds like a Fuel issue to me. probably the tank screen is plugged up, and the fuel has some alge growing in it. If the old fuel is Bio-Diesel, drain it and clean the tank.

I had a tank that had some type of fuel besides Diesel. had this slim crap 1/2 way up the insides of the tank. Dumped in a qt of laquere thinner and swished it around the tank and drained it. added a second qt and let it sit for a few hrs, tipped the rank the other way etc... finally flushed it out with a few rinse`s of gas and let it air dry. came out squeaky clean.

This was on a 300D tank. Also pull the Fuel Sender and clean it out.

As mentioned blow out the Fuel lines.

On the top of the Spin-On filter housing is a part#. 615-xxx-01-xx, or 615-xxx-02-xx.

615-xxx-01-xx will use a aluminium washer under the head of the bolt. The long bolt will have one rubber "O" ring.

615-xxx-02-xx will NOT have or use the washer under the bolt head. the Bolt will have 2 rubber "O" rings on the bolt shaft.

Top off the Spin-On filter with ATF, Diesel Purge, as this will come out of a clean bottle instead of a container of Diesel which could have dirt/water etc...
Then screw on the filter, and pump the primer to purge out the air.

Try running the engine off a seperate jug of clean fuel, connect the supply and return to the jug. this will bypass the fuel tank and you will see if the eng will run w/o a problem of starving for fuel.

Charlie

Left Coast · #7 12-28-2013, 12:56 PM

If everything else were right, a bad crush washer on the fuel filter bolt will cause it to leak. Of course it probably isn't leaking because there's no fuel in the filter, and that's probably due to a blockage upstream, or tank crud is rapidly clogging the primary filter.

Draining the tank completely is prerequisite to removing the tank strainer. From the description of crap filling your primary filter, that's probably where the trouble is. You can test this theory out by running the car off a gallon jug of fuel. That will eliminate the tank, screen, and hard lines from the equation.

whunter · #8 12-28-2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamkat22

i just got an 83 td. i noticed immediately that the pre-filter was jam packed with some red sediment (rust?). auto store was out of spin on filters but i replaced the pre-filter and drove 120 or so miles. at my new location there was a spin on filter in stock, and so i replaced both filters (the pre-filter already had some new sediment built up). i put some gas in the tank (maybe that shook up sediment?) and about 10 miles after replacing the filters i stalled out on the side of hte highway. took off the fuel filter and it was half empty. i wondered if i had just not put it on tight enough and had gotten an air intrusion or if i was supposed to have gotten a new crush washer with my filter. i refilled filter, cracked injectors, bled air and was on my way. 10 miles later i stalled again. repeated same scenario, but this time it was studdering at idle a lot so i didn't take it back on the road and got towed home.

here are some things that i'm not sure are relevant but thought i'd mention:

-p.o. had all new viton lines put on because he was running it on bio diesel (not sure if thats whats currently in the tank)
-apparently car sat for 6 months then he drove it for the last two months after sitting.
-when i had the filter off i pumped the hand primer and only a few drops would come out. not sure if that is normall or significant?
-there was a crush washer on the filter but my new one didn't come with one, so its the same one...don't know if thats a problem.

here are the things i'm going to look at tommorow and will report back but, in the meantime, i'm in a hurry to get this thing running so i'd love any advice on other things i should also be looking into.

-check filter/screen in the tank. maybe drain all fuel and refill?
-replace crush washer if i'm supposed to
-disconnnect line going into spin on filter and see if i get spurts of fuel when key is turned but car isn't cranking

if there is anything else to also look into let me know...but thats what i've gleaned from old posts so far. thanks so much!

adamkat22 · #9 12-28-2013, 02:14 PM

thanks everyone. and thanks whunter for all those links! that is super helpful. i'll report back when i get to the bottom of it all.

adamkat22 · #10 12-28-2013, 07:03 PM

well, maybe found my answer. after checking tank strainer (pretty clean) and testing fuel pump (seemed to be working) i started the car and saw fuel dripping from where the priming pump meets the fuel pump. i stalled shortly after changing a filter. i didn't use the hand pump because it didn't unscrew easily and i didn't want to mess anything up (my other cars had the new ones and this seemed so brittle) but maybe i loosened it a bit while trying?

after stalling the first time i used a wrench to get the top to unscrew and there seemed to be no resistance when using the pump.

obviously i need to deal with the sediment in my filter, but i'm assuming the primer leak was my immediate problem considering i stalled on two fresh filters, a tank strainer that was clean and a lift pump that seems to be working.

looking for a part locally or ordering from peachparts but assuming thats my problem. thanks, once again, for all your help everyone!

JB3 · #11 12-29-2013, 08:54 AM

In the future if the tank strainer is clogged on the road, you can swap supply and return lines on the 123 sedans and bypass it to get home or to do a quick test on if its clogged. I've done that numerous times, even drove around for years using the return line as a supply line. It goes to the bottom of the tank, so will act exactly like supply, but without the screen

cooljjay · #12 12-29-2013, 01:06 PM

Replace the primer....and remember when you do, pick out the copper crushwasher that is under it on the lift pump....then install the new one included with the new primer....a lot of people don't realize there is one in there...and install the new on ontop of the old....causing an air leak....