A 2 degree error looking in that Hole is going to result in a 4 degree error at the Cranks Shaft.

I think looking into the hole and trying to center the Tang is good enough to get the Engine started and running but I don't believe it will time the Engine correctly.

Looking in the Hole and at the Tang could be useful if you have previously Timed Fuel Injection you are trying to see if your Timing Chain has jumped a Tooth or during assembly of the Pump to the Block to see it you are close to where it is supposed to be.

Even if you were able to look straight at that Hole I think it would still not be accurate.
Any sort of downward or upward viewing angle would throw off the alignment and if you are using a Mirror I suspect it would be worse.

I think at the point you can see the Tang in the Hole you might as well use the Timing Locking Tool and get it timed correctly.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Does your orig pic have enough resolution to show the knob scale settings?

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

I think you'd be right.
I just wonder how accurate the RIV A-B light would be in comparison to the eye? It all depends on the accuracy of the configuration.
Does anyone know about this?
I mean the real thing would be this strobe tool:
1x Motor-Tester Diesel von Bosch Ex BW Bundeswehr (DTG9) | eBay

Just a bit pricey....but the ultimate testing as it is measuring the real delivery
like at a gas engine

If people would share this tool would be awesome.
Martin

No it's much too blury. I need to test the front sensors on my SDL anyway so I can take notes at that point.

-J

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

I have met a few People who can line up stuff by Eye. The are few and far between and a large part of the reason they could do that is they had a lot of practice doing the same job over and over again over the course of several years.

It would be nice to see a comparison of multiple timing methods on the same Engine.
The thing about the Timing Light setups is what triggers the Light. If it is some sort of Transducer that clamps onto the Fuel Injection Hard Line you would still need to time the Fuel Injection Pump with one of the proven methods and then attach Timing Light and see what you get.

If you look in the Threads there is a cheaper Device that uses a Transducer; but, you supply your own timing light. You can see them on eBay at $150-$200.

Even though there is no specification in the Mercedes Service Manual for Drip Timing the later Fuel Injection Pumps.
The reason I say that is that if you drip time My older Model it is about 24 Degrees BTDC. But, if you use the A-B Light it is timed at 15 Degrees ATDC.
That 15 degrees ATDC is similar to the later model Fuel Injection Pump timing. So I think it is a good guess that if you Drip Timed at 24 degrees that would be OK.

The bugger for the newer models is you need the Fuel Injection Pump Splined Socket and as few have found out when they change the Delivery Valve O-rings and Crush Washer it is possible to pull up the Element Barrel and not get it lined back up properly.

Messing with the Delivery Valve Holder and the Delivery Valves won't cause an issue with the Element Barrel on an MW Pump because it is bolted down with a 13mm Nut on each side of the Element Barrel.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Has anyone compared the drip method with a strobe?

Sixto
87 300D

The lock tool costs $30, by even bother doing it by eye? I mean I am a cheap skate but I have one.

__________________
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Prior to installing the tool, I center the the tang using a mirror. The tool slips in every time without further tweaking. Still didn't make the cut for the X-Men

Sixto
87 300D

I still don't quite understand how you use the lock tool for precise timing.
You'll need you good eyes anyhow in order to get close to where you want to be .... say I am shooting for 12 deg ATDC...and claiming/guessing this is close to the 24deg BTDC ...or start of injection

So I put crank for cylinder 1 on 12 deg ATDC and then have peek into the hole
..see if the tang is centered or not... of it is not I'd try and rotate the IP so it will be centered.... I mean I can check if the lock goes in.

Maybe I am wrong but the lock tool either fits or it doesn't... How can you find out of 'feel' if it fits or if it doesn't?

I mean all I have is my eyes or the AB lights? What good does the cheap lock tool do?
I am sure I am missing something.

Martin

Unfortunately for My memory is not clear on what I did when I removed My Fuel Injection Pump.

I know I used the Locking Tool when I installed it.

But, since I was experimenting I am 70 percent sure I also tried the Locking Toole by rotating the Engine by hand.

The locking Tool has Spring Loaded what I am going to call a Rod that has a beveled/angled edge around the tip so that the Tang can push it outwards and a groove a cross the diameter to catch the Tang.

Before starting that procedure the Operator has to line up the groove on the Rod end so it is in the proper position to catch the Tang. On the exterior end of the Rod there is also a groove that lines up with the one inside so you can orient the inside groove from the outside.

I am 70% sure I did that and rotated the Engine carefully by hand just to see if that could be done and I am sure it worked.

But, the Timing Locking Tool is really made for instaling the Fuel Injection Pump when the Pump is already off of the Engine. It has an added value in that while you are manuvering the Pump around to get it installed the IP Camshaft is not going to move.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

See the first Post.
A couple of people have said you cannot rotate the Engine and have the Timing Locking Tool work but evidently I did it.
Fuel Injection Pump Removal with the Oil Filter still on 617.952

It is real important not to start or crank the Engine with the Timing Locking Tool inplace (disconnec the Negative Battery Cable). I put a sign on the Steering Wheel to remind me of that.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

If you have the AB Lights you do not need the Locking Tool for retiming. The Timing Locking Toos was made to lock the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft during installation of the Fuel Injection Pump.

But, the question is how to you time your newer style Fuel Injection pump if you don't have an AB Light and don't want to buy one and there is no Factory Spec to Drip Time the IP?
I think the Timing Locking Pin is one solution.

The Timing Locking Pin is made to lock in the direction of normal rotation.

(It is way easier to rotate the Fuel Injection Pump without the Fuel Injection Hard Lines attached to the Pump.)

If I was doing it as you said with the Crank already lined up where you want it.
I would have to retard the Fuel Injection Pump timing by rotating the top of the Fuel Injection Pump Housing away from the Block and then inserting the Timing Locking Tool properly and than rotating the Top of the Fuel Injection Pump Housing back towards the Engine Block till the Tool locks.

There is also an exterior groove around the Rod/Plunger that tells you if the Tools is locked. When the Tool is locke the Goove is visable (on some Tools the groove has red paint in it).

Attached Thumbnails

 

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

The primary function of the tool is to prevent the IP from turning during installation. You might nudge it while fitting the IP timer sprocket, say. It so happens to be a way to simulate the function of the A-B light by telling you that the RIV tang is centered in the inspection port. That's all the A-B light does. There is no setting in the A-B light for 15° ATDC RIV or 24° BTDC start of delivery. Both lights on means the RIV tang is centered.

There is a supposedly linear relationship between start of delivery and RIV position such that 15° ATDC RIV corresponds with 24° BTDC start of delivery. MB would have you set the crank at 15° ATDC and install the IP with the locking tool installed. I think it's a +/- 1° spec so I push it to 14° ATDC RIV. I could set it to 12° ATDC RIV and expect start of delivery to advance by 3°.

To set IP timing to 12° ATDC RIV, turn the crank to 12° ATDC then use the adjustment screw to center the RIV tang in the port. Once it's centered, it's centered. The tool can only confirm what your eyes tell you. If you can't install the tool, use the adjustment screw until the slot engages the RIV tang. Then have your eyes checked The meaningful step is turning the adjustment screw which alters the relationship between the IP timer sprocket and the IP. Otherwise the IP moves with the crank.

Sixto
87 300D

Thanks Sixto,
this makes sense now to me. The lock tool just confirms if your eyes are good or not. I'll report back to what tolerances the tool can accomplish. This depends on the precision of the tool notch (and guide in the port) and the tang.
I'll report back.

Hoe great are chances that I'd need a new o-ring at the IP.. How great are chances that I'd have it leak oil after adjustment?

Martin

If it's original I'd say the chances are high...

-J

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.