need to remove 617 crankshaft, best procedure? - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #61 02-07-2014, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

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You do remember that the front cover of the engine needs to come off to extract the crank don't you? Removing the grille , top rad support , rad will make the job much easier.

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I think you might be confusing the OM617 with some of the later engines. The OM617 doesn't have an engine cover on its front that hides the timing chain and crank; that is all hidden in the block.

To get to the crank JB3 has been busy with the upper oil pan which covers the entire underside (and a part at the front) of the engine (see above). The turbo OM617 version does have a little cover - well window - close to the front crank seal but this involves a trivial removal process compared with that of the upper oil pan. This little window isn't on the non turbo versions as the upper oil pan design is different due to different engine oil pumps.

JB3 · #62 02-07-2014, 11:45 AM

quick update-

Removing the oil pump was as simple as the lack of specific details on doing it on this forum seems to indicate.

I followed this procedure-

-undo the 13mm bolt holding the oil pump gear
-(FSM states undo the spring on the tensioner, but I found it a lot easier just to release the tension with my thumb when it came time to pull the gear.
-(FSM quite literally calls for two screwdrivers to remove the gear, I used a small prybar and it popped off the tapered shaft)
-Then as rollguy was indicating, its only 3 13mm bolts holding it in. I undid all 3, plus the other 2 10mm bolts that disconnects the upper part thats held in via an O-ring. I found it easier to rotate that piece carefully to remove it after.

As an aside, Im getting really happy I went to this trouble, the oil pump tensioner is not at completely bad as shown in the earlier linked thread, but its close. Ill be glad to get it replaced when I reassemble.

Now the oil pump chain is hanging, and I can move on to removing the harmonic balancer and pulleys. Considerable rust awaits, should be fun.

ROLLGUY · #63 02-07-2014, 11:55 AM

Don't forget that by removing the crank, you will also need to re-time the IP when everything goes back together. I understand about the need to be able to move the van around, and I can see that you want to get down to the bottom of this problem without hindering the construction in your shop. I agree that you should remove as much as you can now, and still keep the van mobile, but I will predict that you will be pulling the engine eventually in order to assemble it. Just sayin'.......Rich

JB3 · #64 02-07-2014, 02:04 PM

so the flywheel and crank balance marks are supposed to be on the inside of the bores according to the FSM for reference. Both are invisible or rubbed off on this situation, but the FSM does address the the flywheel balance possibility-

And removing the pulleys is going to be really unpleasant. Likely all of the cap screws will need to be ground out-

JB3 · #65 02-07-2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Don't forget that by removing the crank, you will also need to re-time the IP when everything goes back together. I understand about the need to be able to move the van around, and I can see that you want to get down to the bottom of this problem without hindering the construction in your shop. I agree that you should remove as much as you can now, and still keep the van mobile, but I will predict that you will be pulling the engine eventually in order to assemble it. Just sayin'.......Rich

probably. Although the room to work in this chassis is quite nice, ultimately, that might happen.

Simpler=Better · #66 02-07-2014, 02:07 PM

Do the hammer trick first!

You've got a set of left-handed drill bits right?

Hammer driver?

Also, I'm totally going to balance the damper now.

Can you measure the balancer threads once the bolts are out? I want to order balancer and crank bolts with safety wire holes eventually.

funola · #67 02-07-2014, 02:25 PM

Those allen heads look horrible. I would suggest not using an Allen but use an exc. quality Torx bit on a 1/2 drive extension hammered in after torching the bolt head red hot first. If that doesn't work, then last resort is grinding.

Stretch · #68 02-07-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

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And removing the pulleys is going to be really unpleasant. Likely all of the cap screws will need to be ground out-
...

Been there - done that - got the T shirt

If you resort to drilling just do the heads with a bit about 1.5 times the diameter of the rusted hex orifice...

JB3 · #69 02-07-2014, 05:35 PM

every single cap screw is having to be drilled. The usual story of just enough material to hold fast, and not enough to grip.

However, removing the radiator, grill ,and front bumper gives you all the room in the world to access these fastners.

Obamalamadingdong · #70 02-07-2014, 05:56 PM

Seems that an external style bolt/nut extractor would be the first strategy to employ, no? They are pounded on into place, that usually helps break free things, and if you use them with an old school hammer style impact driver I'd bet most of those six Allen heads would come out without any other problem.

JB3 · #71 02-07-2014, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obamalamadingdong

Seems that an external style bolt/nut extractor would be the first strategy to employ, no? They are pounded on into place, that usually helps break free things, and if you use them with an old school hammer style impact driver I'd bet most of those six Allen heads would come out without any other problem.

Have a beautiful set of just that external easy-out tool. That was step 3 for me after trying the allen key, then trying an internal easy out. Unfortuantely these screws are really just mounds of rust that kinda look like socket head cap screws, shadows of their former selves.

In the same way that fat Kirstie Alley kinda looks like hot Kirstie Alley from Cheers, but you would never confuse them unless you've had a few hundred beers

Need some sharper drill bits, but most are out

97 SL320 · #72 02-07-2014, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

The OM617 doesn't have an engine cover on its front that hides the timing chain and crank; that is all hidden in the block.

Found a pic of the front seal where the al oil pan comes apart across the seal and there isn't a front cover.

The timing chain will still need to come off the cam then be reinstalled, that sounds like a difficult job working upside down.

ROLLGUY · #73 02-07-2014, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Found a pic of the front seal where the al oil pan comes apart across the seal and there isn't a front cover.

The timing chain will still need to come off the cam then be reinstalled, that sounds like a difficult job working upside down.

I don't think removing it will be that big of a deal, it is the installation that will be very hard with the block in the van. Remember, he is leaving the piston/rod assemblies in the block, but removing just the crank.

JB3 · #74 02-20-2014, 01:48 PM

just a little update, got overtaken by events, and was unable to pull the crank out before construction was to begin in here, so the van is being pushed outside on pause until the beams go up. Will return to this job as soon as practical.

t walgamuth · #75 02-20-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

Could have just been its time then, but it wasn't leaking, and is now definitely leaking. The vibrations couldn't have cracked a 30 year old rope seal? I am assuming the shuddering vibrations have something to do with the seal starting to leak, but it could just be a factor of age I guess

on the piston weights, why wouldn't they all be within the same tolerance? One wouldn't be an example of the other 4?

There won't be much difference from one cylinder to another. I would not worry about it.

I'd definitely pull the motor out though.