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  #1  
Old 02-06-2014, 11:47 PM
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Seeking advice separating transmission from engine. 1982 240D

I've decided to start overhauling the engine on my 82 240D with automatic transmission. Today I removed engine with transmission together as a unit. Now next step is separating transmission. I've removed the 6 bolts that attach to the torque converted from under the engine. However when I try separating the two, the torque converter won't budge from the flex plate. What am I doing wrong? I need some advice. Because I've heard that I must not let the torque converted come off with the engine and must stay with the transmission.

Thanks!

Herb
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2014, 11:56 PM
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Answer

This is normal.

The torque converter nose pin is stuck in the crankshaft.

Pull the transmission off, be prepared for the fluid spill.

Pry and rock the torque converter until it separates from the engine..

Gently sand the torque converter nose pin, and wire wheel the crankshaft hole.


Apply wheel bearing grease to the torque converter nose pin and crankshaft hole.

Install a NEW torque converter seal.

When you install the torque converter into the transmission, there are THREE clunks (many rotations) before it is fully seated.
If it fails to fully seat, it will break the pump when mounted to the engine.


.
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2014, 11:59 PM
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The input shaft runs pretty deep into the TC. The only problem I could conceive is that you would damage the tranny somehow if it tilted downward while being pulled off and put too much torque on the input shaft.

I would say to jury-rig a platform with plywood, cinderblocks, and other junk at the level of the tranny so that you can pull it straight back on that surface and it will not fall down. Then figure out what's wrong with the TC.

Also, make sure to partially rebolt the TC so that it stays in place during removal and doesn't unstick itself and fall off while you are removing the tranny .

If you find that the TC is rusted on, then I would partially loosen the bolts that you used to hold it in place during the above-suggested tranny pull and then pry it off... that way it won't fly off when you break the rust.
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

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  #4  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:02 AM
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Wow. Thank you whunter for the quick response! So I guess I won't harm the transmission just pulling it off with the torque converter attached to transmission. I'll follow your advice. Thank you again!!!!
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:09 AM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by airfoill View Post
Wow. Thank you whunter for the quick response! So I guess I won't harm the transmission just pulling it off with the torque converter attached to transmission. I'll follow your advice. Thank you again!!!!
Glad to help.

.
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:10 AM
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Thank you also Jooseppi for your input. Yes. I've got the transmission supported on blocks so that it won't bind when I separate it.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:08 AM
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How hard is it to remove the transmission while the engine and tranny are still in the car? Its a 84 300SD.

The PO swapped the engine and forgot to install the spacer ring between the engine and tranny. That is where the tach pickup goes, so now the tach doesn't work and it idles rough, I think from no tach signal.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post
How hard is it to remove the transmission while the engine and tranny are still in the car? Its a 84 300SD.

The PO swapped the engine and forgot to install the spacer ring between the engine and tranny. That is where the tach pickup goes, so now the tach doesn't work and it idles rough, I think from no tach signal.
The car wouldn't idle roughly due to the tach signal. The engines in these cars possess 0 electronic controls -- the 240D and 300D NA didn't even have tachs.

No spacer ring??? You sure? Unless there is a visible gap between engine and transmission, I am having a hard time visualizing how one could ever force the tranny flat on to the motor without a spacer ring. Are you sure that the ring isn't there? Do you have a picture?
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:33 AM
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The rough idle may be an altogether separate issue. Is the idle jumping around, or is it mainly shaky? If it's mainly a rattling-your-teeth-out (or rattling-your-dentures-out if you've ignored it for long enough) issue, the most common culprits are:

Motor mounts
Engine shocks
Nailing injectors
Rack Damper Bolt
Maladjusted valves
Filthy engine

For motor mounts, Roy (whunter) has specified a way to test for them that I can't remember right now. The engine shocks I would leave for now. Rack damper bolt adjustment instructions are here:

1985 300D Rack Damper Adjustment.

Valve adjustment instructions are all over the net, and the filthy engine could be corrected via a diesel purge -- DieselGiant has a great set of instructions, but know that NAPA carries that purge fluid for MUCH less than DieselGiant.

EDIT: Ha, I forgot nailing. Nailing injectors have a distinct clicking sound that can be heard over the general engine rattle -- kind of like the gnome who lives under your valve cover and makes the engine work right is building himself a house . If your injectors are nailing, I recommend greazzer for the rebuild unless you want to do it yourself, at which point you'd need to find a pop-tester somewhere.
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:37 AM
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The spacer ring is in the trunk. You want a pic of that?

The PO said he installed an engine from a 84 300D into the 84 300SD. The eBay receipt for the engine says "Mercedes 300SD 300D engine OM617 130K miles" He paid $555 for it. I found the eBay listing for it the pics show it was originally a turbo.

See: Mercedes 300SD 300D Engine OM617 130K Miles Good Shape No Reserve | eBay
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1st MBz: 1982 300SD
2nd MBz: 1987 300SDL
3rd MBz: 1995 S420
4th MBz: 1987 190DT
5th MBz: 1984 300SD w/1983 300DT engine
6th MBz: 1999 C230k I'm 3rd owner, got it w/57,235 miles.
and manages Mom's 2007 R320 CDI
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:44 AM
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Not the ring, I'm just blown away by the thought that the tranny was installed without the spacer. Is there a gap between the engine and transmission or what's going on there?

I forgot to say anything about the tranny removal . I did it this fall in my 300SD and it's not that bad of a job. I can come back with more instructions later -- but I've got to run now .
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
The rough idle may be an altogether separate issue. Is the idle jumping around, or is it mainly shaky? If it's mainly a rattling-your-teeth-out (or rattling-your-dentures-out if you've ignored it for long enough) issue, the most common culprits are:

Motor mounts
Engine shocks
Nailing injectors
Rack Damper Bolt
Maladjusted valves
Filthy engine

For motor mounts, Roy (whunter) has specified a way to test for them that I can't remember right now. The engine shocks I would leave for now. Rack damper bolt adjustment instructions are here:

1985 300D Rack Damper Adjustment.

Valve adjustment instructions are all over the net, and the filthy engine could be corrected via a diesel purge -- DieselGiant has a great set of instructions, but know that NAPA carries that purge fluid for MUCH less than DieselGiant.

EDIT: Ha, I forgot nailing. Nailing injectors have a distinct clicking sound that can be heard over the general engine rattle -- kind of like the gnome who lives under your valve cover and makes the engine work right is building himself a house . If your injectors are nailing, I recommend greazzer for the rebuild unless you want to do it yourself, at which point you'd need to find a pop-tester somewhere.
The idle is rough and noisy, maybe nailing. Reving up a bit stops the odd noise and it runs smoother. I drove it as-is from southern Arizona to southern Idaho, it did ok, except for leaking a quart of oil. New lower oil line arrived yesterday for that problem.

The PO gave me a receipt for two motor mounts and the tranny mount. I'm guessing he installed them.

The engine shocks are there, but the lower mounts for them are in the trunk. Not sure if they are good or need to be replaced.

I bought 5 used injectors and sent them to greazzer for R&R. He is working on them now.

Rack damper bolt and valve adjust are other unknowns right now. Its 20F outside and snowing. I don't have a garage so this project is stalled for a while.
__________________
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1st MBz: 1982 300SD
2nd MBz: 1987 300SDL
3rd MBz: 1995 S420
4th MBz: 1987 190DT
5th MBz: 1984 300SD w/1983 300DT engine
6th MBz: 1999 C230k I'm 3rd owner, got it w/57,235 miles.
and manages Mom's 2007 R320 CDI
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2014, 10:37 AM
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Sounds like my 300SD, actually -- new mounts, nailing injectors, uninstalled shock mounts, unknown valves and rack damper! My car's idle also really smooths out when revved. My injectors just came back from greazzer, so I'll run a purge, install the injectors, and see how it does.
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #14  
Old 02-07-2014, 10:42 AM
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he did not forget to install the spacer ring, he used the one from your original engine, and left you the one from the engine he bought...
it's IMPOSSIBLE to attach the transmission to the engine without the ring.
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
he did not forget to install the spacer ring, he used the one from your original engine, and left you the one from the engine he bought...
it's IMPOSSIBLE to attach the transmission to the engine without the ring.
Thanks, that's what I thought.
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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