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  #1  
Old 02-09-2014, 01:54 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 5,019
OM617 Turbo Screech

Afternoon everyone,

For a while now our one 300SD had this screeching noises that would occur >2K rpm. I initially thought it was something up in the belt area.

Last weekend it threw an alternator belt so I bought all new belts to replace them. I then found that the alternator's bearings were shot so I ordered up an AL129X 115A alternator. I figured that screeching noise was from the bad alternator

This weekend I install everything and set the belt tensions as per the FSM and I found that the noise is still there.

I listened closer and it seems to be coming from the turbo area. I did some searching on here and one poster seemed to indicate that when the turbo starts to go it will sound a lot like a belt noise but when the turbo spool up around 2K rpms.

I shot a video here, let me know what you think:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JamesDean59/media/MVI_9125_zps1661187a.mp4.html

I looked and found a few places that will rebuild the turbo for $350. I think thats a fair price. I also found rebuild kits for $60 but I dont have the experience nor the equipment required to balance the turbine.
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k

Last edited by JamesDean; 02-09-2014 at 02:31 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2014, 02:27 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
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Location: Long Beach,CA
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If you remove the Tubocharger and remove the Exhaust Housing and the Compressor Housing you can see if either of the Wheels has been rubbing on the Housing.
Or you could just remove the Compressor Housing and see if the Compressor Wheel had rubbed.
If either is the case you would need to rebalnce the Wheels.

If nothing has rubbed you can match mark the Compressor Wheel (it may already be match marked). When you assemble the cleaned Turbo you line up the Compressor Wheel Match Marks and as long as no other Metal was shaved off the Balance would be preserved.

Most say a good used Turbo is cost effective.
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2014, 02:33 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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I added the video in the original post. Camera ran out of storage so it got cut a bit short, but you should be able to hear the sound pretty clear.

I dont know how much interest I have in rebuilding the turbo myself. I dont really have any reservations about paying $350 to have it done professionally. This particular 300SD been pretty low cost ever since we bought it 7 years ago. The motor itself is healthy (based on the oil analysis reports) so I've no problems with a small investment.
__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2014, 03:04 PM
whunter's Avatar
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Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
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OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
Afternoon everyone,

For a while now our one 300SD had this screeching noises that would occur >2K rpm. I initially thought it was something up in the belt area.

Last weekend it threw an alternator belt so I bought all new belts to replace them. I then found that the alternator's bearings were shot so I ordered up an AL129X 115A alternator. I figured that screeching noise was from the bad alternator

This weekend I install everything and set the belt tensions as per the FSM and I found that the noise is still there.

I listened closer and it seems to be coming from the turbo area. I did some searching on here and one poster seemed to indicate that when the turbo starts to go it will sound a lot like a belt noise but when the turbo spool up around 2K rpms.

I shot a video here, let me know what you think:
MVI_9125_zps1661187a.mp4 Video by JamesDean59 | Photobucket

I looked and found a few places that will rebuild the turbo for $350. I think thats a fair price. I also found rebuild kits for $60 but I don't have the experience nor the equipment required to balance the turbine.
That sounds like:
* Alternator impeller rubbing the housing - loose/damaged nut?
* Turbo bearings failed - impellers hitting the housings?

.
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Prototype R&D/testing:
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1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2014, 03:09 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Location: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
That sounds like:
* Alternator impeller rubbing the housing - loose/damaged nut?
* Turbo bearings failed - impellers hitting the housings?

.
The alternator is a rebuilt from AutoZone, AL129X 115A. It has a new nut on it. I reused the pulley and fan from the stock alternator.

When I listened to it, I stood on the passenger side and it sounded to me that it was coming more from the turbo area than the belt drive area.

Question, is the turbo lubricated by the engine oil or just cooled by the engine oil? Or neither?
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2014, 03:13 PM
whunter's Avatar
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
The alternator is a rebuilt from AutoZone, AL129X 115A. It has a new nut on it. I reused the pulley and fan from the stock alternator.

When I listened to it, I stood on the passenger side and it sounded to me that it was coming more from the turbo area than the belt drive area.

Question, is the turbo lubricated by the engine oil or just cooled by the engine oil? Or neither?
The turbo is Lubricated and cooled by the engine oil.

I would still put a wrench on the alternator nut to check it, nothing to lose and no cost.

.
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Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2014, 03:33 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 5,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
The turbo is Lubricated and cooled by the engine oil.

I would still put a wrench on the alternator nut to check it, nothing to lose and no cost.

.
Agree, I'll check it next time the car is in the garage.

Do you have any recommendations for a turbo rebuild shop?

A friend of mine recommended me this shop:
Pure Turbos | Turbochargers and Parts | Billet Compressor Wheels | Diesel Upgrades | Rebuild Kits
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2014, 05:52 PM
whunter's Avatar
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Umm

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
Agree, I'll check it next time the car is in the garage.

Do you have any recommendations for a turbo rebuild shop?

A friend of mine recommended me this shop:
Pure Turbos | Turbochargers and Parts | Billet Compressor Wheels | Diesel Upgrades | Rebuild Kits
Rule of thumb..
By the time you hear that scream, it is scrap metal.
Find a good use unit, and rebuild it.

Here is one in my garage now, pictures of ruined parts.
1980 300D W116 Failed Screaming Turbo Photos by whunter | Photobucket










.
__________________
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asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2014, 06:18 PM
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Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 330
whunter - What is a fair and reasonable price for a used turbo, say with around 200k miles?
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1st MBz: 1982 300SD
2nd MBz: 1987 300SDL
3rd MBz: 1995 S420
4th MBz: 1987 190DT
5th MBz: 1984 300SD w/1983 300DT engine
6th MBz: 1999 C230k I'm 3rd owner, got it w/57,235 miles.
and manages Mom's 2007 R320 CDI
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:07 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 5,019
For reference, here is a link to Pure Turbos repair service page:

Turbocharger Rebuild Service - Rebuild Service

and their repair form:

http://www.pureturbos.com/store/PureTurbosRebuildForm.pdf
__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:26 PM
whunter's Avatar
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post
whunter - What is a fair and reasonable price for a used turbo, say with around 200k miles?
Contact "vstech" for that answer.

.
__________________
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Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:37 AM
Mölyapina's Avatar
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JamesDean, can you use a piece of fuel line or something as a mechanic's stethoscope to narrow down where the noise is coming from?

I'll throw in my $0.02 on the price of a used turbo and say $50-$100.
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

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  #13  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:41 AM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
JamesDean, can you use a piece of fuel line or something as a mechanic's stethoscope to narrow down where the noise is coming from?

I'll throw in my $0.02 on the price of a used turbo and say $50-$100.
i've got a cheap mechanic's stethoscope somewhere in a drawer here. I'll have to give it ago, all signs do point to the turbo though. Certainly does not hurt to double check noises though.
__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:04 AM
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I think it is the turbo. You most likely have a wheel rubbing the housing. Pull a good one from a junk yard and rebuild it. It's not that difficult. Get a rebuild kit with the most parts you can find. Some don't include all the heat shields or oil distributor plate, etc.
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2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:14 AM
JamesDean's Avatar
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The question is how will I know if the used turbo is any good and does not have the same problems? Can it be visually inspected without dismantling? I've got a line on a used one.
__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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