Wonder about the older cars.

With an oil-cooled turbo, you can cook the oil if you shutdown immediately after a fast run. Not a problem if you pull into your driveway after driving down a few local streets. But if you pull off a fast highway into a rest stop, not a bad idea to idle for a minute before shutting down.

I do not warm up.

I glow the engine till the GP indicator goes out, a few additional seconds if it's really cold out, then start it up.

Once she fires, I let oil pressure come up, give it about 10 seconds to lube the cam, then back out of my driveway.

After that, I drive carefully and try to shift at 2000 max 2500. She comes up to temp in about 5 minutes. Once the coolant hits 80C I shift at 2500, and after 5 minutes after hitting 80C I feel good enough to give her 3000 or 4000 if I have to hustle.

Warming up a gas engine is possible at idle, but a 60X or 61X will take forever to fully warm at idle. Plus, the combustion at cold start at idle is very poor. The heat soak of the block sucks the heat out of the air and combustion of the diesel is very poor. That will build up Carbon in the PC and coke load the rings and oil more.

Just start it, get oil pressure, and go right away while driving gently.

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
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This is interesting. As long as my 617 has been running at least a minute or so, even in crazy cold temps it still makes good power, not what it does when warm, but plenty more than a 240d makes on its best day. Strangely my dad's 300SD is in fact very slow when cold for a few minutes....and his engine has no blowby and half the miles on it as mine does. Main differences are I have my alda beyond maxxed out, new timing chain with almost no stretch, and bosio injector nozzles. His has bosch nozzles, alda untouched, and about 5-6 degrees of chain stretch.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

This is not a 1908 Oldsmobile...

This is a MODERN vehicle.

Do not waste time attempting to warm up.

Once the engine is running stable, oil pressure has come up, it is ready to drive.

I DON"T baby my vehicles, hammer the throttle and ignore the sluggish response (typically gone within 2-400 feet).
This is a prechamber diesel = it is always happiest under LOAD, especially in the cold.

Putter and baby the engine in cold weather, and you build excess coke in the prechamber - piston chamber..

If everything is stock; You can not damage the engine in any manner by instantly driving to the limit (as designed) in cold weather.
I have Never lost or had a customer lose a Mercedes diesel by instantly driving on winter cold start.

Typical cold weather engine failures:
* Water pump belt failed, and continued driving.
* Little or no Antifreeze protection = slush or frozen cooling system.
* Engine oil below critical level, and continued driving.
* Road ice breaking radiator or oil pan.
* Engine temperature falling while driving (extreme arctic cold), partially block the radiator with cardboard so you don't freeze to death.

I have heat within one mile, unless ambient temperature is below -20° F, then it takes 1.5 miles.

.

__________________
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Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

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I have a block heater and oil pan heating pad plugged on on a timer for three hrs before work in the morning i just jump in and go almost instant heat too

__________________
2011 e320 cdi (132,000) current
2005 Jeep CRD diesel--2.8L (138,000 miles) wrecked, insurance took
1993 Mercedes benz 300D 2.5 Turbo Frybrid powered. (336,000 miles) wrecked and sold as parts car
1990 Mercedes benz 300D 2.5 Turbo (170,000 miles) wrecked and sold as parts car

Check out my Frybrid Vegtable Oil Conversion at http://1990300dfrybridconversion.shutterfly.com/

For the most part, extended warm up isn't needed for a car. Start the motor, scrape off the snow, drive away at half RPM and load.

Hammering a cold engine will cause problems.

Aluminum expands at a greater rate than iron. Run a cold engine against full load and the piston expansion will out run the still cold cylinder expansion. Do this on a tight low mile motor and you will scuff a piston skirt, worn motors can get away with this but it is still risky.

High oil pressure when cold can lead to channeling of rod / main bearings where bearing material is eroded away. Low RPM will prevent this.

The upper end of most engines have restricted oil flow, it takes some time for thick oil to ooze through the restriction.

Rapid expansion of exhaust manifolds can lead to manifold bolt breakage. This occurs on emergency back up generators that are started then slammed to full load.

Alright so we have the following post:

and then we have this post:

So I'm left with the conclusion that I should drive immediately in old weather (0-30 degrees) yet keep it under 2500 rpm until the engines reaches 80 degrees C.

This sounds about right, although I do have one last question.

My SD struggles to shift right off the bat in cold weather. Feel like she shifts very late. She is fine once she reached optimum temperature and operates as expected. Is this normal? Anything I can do to alleviate this?

__________________
1982 300SD

Ha ha ha listen to your heart I guess? My car seems much happier when I give it ten minutes or so to warm up. If idling the car is going to damage the engine then Mercedes must have the stupidest engineers on earth.

__________________
1978 300D

To clear up your confusion.

Simply reduce oil change interval in cold weather.
Poll: How long will you let your diesel idle?

Why shouldn't a Mercedes Diesel be left to Idle for long periods.

Acceptably Safe Soot Levels: Can Anyone Speak with Authority?

Dump Rotella T6 and use Delvac?

Dump Rotella T6 and use Delvac?

Dump Rotella T6 and use Delvac?

.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

it's not DAMAGE per se... it's soot accumulation, and energy waste.

it's got nothing to do with the engineers... it's just the way Diesel is.

HEAT makes it work. and IDLE has VERY VERY LITTLE HEAT.

they attempted to combat it with the extended glow times in the afterglow system with the stronger glow plugs... duraterms I think... anyway, if you need to let the car idle for long times, be sure to ITALIAN TUNE UP the car, (drive the SNOT OUT OF IT asap after it warms up...) like, 60mph in 3rd gear, or climb LOOOONNNG hill in 2nd... max rpm will blow out all the soot, and give the combustion chamber a good cleaning...

expect HUGE CLOUDS OF BLACK SMOKE... cinders are not uncommon on heavily sooted up motors.

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
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I let it run long enough to idle smoothly then I take it easy until I get a few miles down the road. I don't think it would ever warm up enough to make heat just idling.

More data added to post#40.

.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

I agree with Whunter, you should start it, let it stabilize, and then drive. I just don't agree that you should immediately slam it to full load or redline.

I agree with sl320, high oil pressure when cold can cause problems. Low oil pressure fails to produce an adequate load bearing film. The bearings in the crank and the rod ends end up metal-metal and wear. Proper pressure keeps the two surfaces "floating" in oil and they never touch. High oil pressure can be just as bad or worse then low pressure, because the oil film destabilizes, becomes turbulent, and actually lifts the bearing out of its seat in the cap, rod, block, or mains cap. That will lead to a spun bearing that blocks the oil feed hole. That bearing is now not long for this world.

I also want to emphasize, that clearences shrink when things heat up. So when the motor is dead cold, your bearing clearences will be greater, and they will experience more hammering and varying oil film then if they were hot.

So, start it up, build up oil pressure (3 seconds for me), give it a 10 count to get oil to the head and cam, then start driving carefully. Try to keep it under 2500, preferably at 2000 rpm. Once you hit 80C, the head is at operating temp, the block is at temp, the pistons and rods are at temp, but the oil takes a long time to get up to its operating temperature. If you take a lot of short trips, especially in cold weather, just keep that in mind. Just because the motor is at 80C, that doesn't mean the oil is up to temp and the moisture has boiled off. Usually a 20 minute highway run will boil off all the water in the oil and get it nice and hot. That's important to prevent acid accumulation and potential corrosion issues in the crank case.

The shifting issue is probably a tranny issue.

If you want, I suppose you could start the motor cold, let it stabilize, and then powerbrake the engine and transmission at 1500-2000 rpm to get both warmed up before you drive away. Put it in drive, put your foot firmly on the brake, and rev up the engine. Revving it in drive like that loads up the torque converter and produces a lot of heat. This may or may not be a good idea, I'm just letting you know that this is a thing.

Just for reference, I pull off my street, immediately get up to 35-40 mph, cruise at that speed nice and steady at 2000 rpm, and at that speed I am up to 80C within 2 miles and maybe 5 minutes.

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png

Forgot to add that I also put the car in neutral with the parking brake fully engaged to allow the fluids to start moving in the transmission, and to allow for the temperatures to arrive at operating temps quicker.

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Nosce Te Ipsum "Know thyself"