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  #1  
Old 02-15-2014, 02:43 PM
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Battle of the anti-gels/lubricators

I have been looking into different brands and am curious what you use or what you think is the best. I have done research and found the topic heavily covered on the truck sites, but not so much for the passenger cars like our great Mercedes.

Thanks!

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Old 02-15-2014, 04:10 PM
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I am from a Warm State so I don't have persone experience with Diesels and cold Weather.
On the Other Hand the Truckers need to keep the Truck on the Road or they lose Money. I would say that they know more then the Car Drivers do. Still opinions vary.

In the Winter I would put in the anti-gel and if the sambe Can or Bottle includes other Addatives that would be OK. I would not put in an anti-gel addative and then add other additives on top of that during the Witner.

Using Additives in good weather is a little controversial with a lot of confusing facts and opinions.

I use one of the Diesel Clean Cetane Booster/Cleaner products once in a while on the Mercedes more often in My Volvo Diesel.

Using the Diesel Clean in the Volvo Diesel Car reduces the dark smoke when I accelerate fast. I am getting the Dark Smoke because I adjuste something wrong inside of the Fuel Injection Pump. However, I need to decreae the smoke on acceleration and the Diesel Clean helps.

I attached a PDF I read on the subject.
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File Type: pdf Winter operation with diesel fuels.pdf (54.4 KB, 114 views)
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:21 PM
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Somewhere in the Threads is a long thead on addatives that has a link to a Spicer Addative test.
It can only be used in warm weather but a small percentage per Tank Full of commercial Biodiesel ended up with the best lubricity for Fuel Injection Pumps. And, Biodiesl increases the Cetane rating. However, Biodiesl has less energy in it then Diesel Fuel so milage suffers a bit.
Also Boidiesel works as a solvent can loosen crud in the Fuel Supply System for a while making possible to need more frequent Filter Changes.

This has nothing to do with anti-gel addatives but is comments from one of our Members who is or Was a Truck Driver.
"I have done extensive record keeping about what improves the mileage on my N14 Cummins, as I am a long-haul truck driver. During the $4.50 plus days, I was going crazy trying everything to increase my mileage above 5.5 mpg. The only thing that consistently worked, was to use an upper cylinder lubricant in the correct amounts. I used a gallon of Lucas, or 1/2 gallon of 2-stroke oil for approximately 300 gals. They were the only products that consistently raised my fuel mileage and quieted the engine down. However, since 2-stroke oil doesn't have an injector cleaner, I had to put that in, either as a dedicated cleaner, or switch to the actual Lucas (or USA Lube) at least once every six fillups. ATF made no difference on my fuel mileage or quieting down the engine, but worked as an injector cleaner, in the right amounts. Unfortunately, the ultra low sulfur diesel does not perform as well on our older MBZ or heavy-duty truck engines, necessitating a regular dose of upper cylinder lubricant. However, I have noticed that Bio-diesel does quiet things down, if at least B11, but didn't make a difference in mileage, and maybe a bit less power."

I dissagree with the Upper Cylinder Lubricant Comment as any thing put into the Fuel on a Diesel Engine is Injected into the Engine and it is supposed to burn. I don't see any lubrication happening during the burning.
So an addative in the Fuel has a chance to work on anything from the Fuel Tank to the Injector Nozzle.

On Gasoline Engine where the Fuel comes into the Intake Maifold putting a Addative in the Fuel can allow the Additive to get on the Intake Valves and lube them and on the Cylinder Walls during the intake stroke; including the upper Cylinder that does not get much if any Oil.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:15 PM
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"I was going crazy trying everything to increase my mileage above 5.5 mpg."

Try slowing down.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rscurtis View Post
"I was going crazy trying everything to increase my mileage above 5.5 mpg."

Try slowing down.
Not always possible. In commercial trucking time is money. If you miss your delivery or pickup time it can cost you. And there's a limit on the number of hours you're allowed to be on the road.

As for me, I've never used any kind of ant-gelling additive and I've never had fuel gel on me. I do tend to run commercial B20, winterized from October to the end of April (I think that's what it says on the pump) for a variety of reasons, lubricity being the only one directly related to the functioning of the fuel system.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2014, 06:17 PM
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I DO live in a cold state. I never use anti-gel, as pump diesel is supposed to be winterized to -20F. That said, I've been blindsided twice in the last 20 years by gelled diesel. I always travel with extra fuel filters. Both times, I was able to fix the problem at the roadside by installing new filters.

I use ATF for lubrication...it's not for the valves or intake, but it does help the pump and injectors. A pint in the tank once in a while does it. The engine runs noticeably quieter with a little oil in the fuel. Unlike Bluetech cars, these old cars tolerate sulfur, so no harm will come of it.

If you experience extremely cold winters (less than 10F on a regular basis), use synthetic for the winter months. Starting is much improved if the oil isn't too thick. Below 10F, I also glow twice before starting.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:11 PM
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Don't say I never gave you anything

Here's the aforementioned additive test for those who are interested (assuming I uploaded it right ).

I've never found any of the Opti-Lube products available over the counter in my area, but the Power Service is down at ol' Wally's Mart for not too much money. It does seem to make a little difference in how my engine runs, for the better. I need to hunt down the higher-ranked stuff and try that.
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File Type: pdf Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf (130.7 KB, 133 views)
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:40 AM
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I can only speak to Power Service in the white bottle. Used it as directed on the bottle and started fine recently at 6 degrees F. Other diesel owners in the area had trouble. In the future I'll only get the small bottle that I can use up quickly, we just don't get temperatures that low often, and the bigger partially-used bottle that won't seal quite right and must be stored upright is proving to be a bit of pain to carry in the truck.

My best buddy is a truck driver. They are advised to run anti gel when temps get into the teens, so this is what I do.

Oregon has a B5 biodiesel mandate. I don't worry about lubricity.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:12 AM
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Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids: Overview Sheets

Sheets 119.0, 131.0, 135.0, 136.0, 137.0, 138.0, and 138.1, may be of interest.

Sheet 119.0 makes reference to Sheet 137.1, which supposedly lists approved flow improver products, or something like that, for cold weather operation, but this sheet is not shown on the Menu linked above.

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  #10  
Old 02-16-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalicoJack View Post
Here's the aforementioned additive test for those who are interested (assuming I uploaded it right ).

I've never found any of the Opti-Lube products available over the counter in my area, but the Power Service is down at ol' Wally's Mart for not too much money. It does seem to make a little difference in how my engine runs, for the better. I need to hunt down the higher-ranked stuff and try that.
Don't these results seem a little bit...odd? How does adding used motor oil have no affect, while adding fresh 2-cycle oil have a significant affect? How does adding ANYTHING at 1 part per 1000 have a negative effect? It is what it is, but I'd like to see these results confirmed elsewhere.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado220 View Post
Battle of the anti-gels/lubricators
I would research which products cause water to pool in the system and which ones remove water
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:36 AM
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In reference to the post by DIESEL911 with the quote from a truck driver, my son who was a long haul driver said that 1 gal of lucas per tank (it had 2 200gal tanks) would increase his fuel mileage. I think he said by 2 mpg but I am not sure about that. He died August 16, 2013 so I can't ask him about it now. But it did improve it.
Truck drivers know their trucks better than you could ever know a car.

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Old 02-16-2014, 12:07 PM
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Read the lubricity study above. Fuel lubricates things like the injection pump. Lack of lube is a huge problem on 24 valve Cummins and makes for some of the longest, most common threads. The SDs don't seem to be as sensitive. I run 2 stroke @ 1oz/gallon just because.

I've seen pics of injectors on this formula and they were nice and clean. A friend of mine sells diesel parts and has opti-lube which is less expensive per dose than 2 stroke but an ozof opti lube treats 10 gallons so is easy to over dose. It isn't convenient to get even from my friend.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:04 PM
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At lest 2-Stroke Oil is made to burn in an Engine; but ATF is not.

The question is that you put red colored ATF or 2-stroke Oil in your Tank and you live in an area where they Dip you Take to see if you are using Off Road Diesel Fuel (has red Dye in it) are you going to get fined due to the red Color of the ATF or 2-Stroke Oil.

The cheap 2-Stroke Oil that Walmart sells is green and I have seen others that are brown.
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2014, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
At lest 2-Stroke Oil is made to burn in an Engine; but ATF is not.

The question is that you put red colored ATF or 2-stroke Oil in your Tank and you live in an area where they Dip you Take to see if you are using Off Road Diesel Fuel (has red Dye in it) are you going to get fined due to the red Color of the ATF or 2-Stroke Oil.

The cheap 2-Stroke Oil that Walmart sells is green and I have seen others that are brown.
My understanding is that the dip test considers some chemical test and is not only related to color. The dye in off road fuel supposedly stays around a long time. Do you have other information?

The SD seems to be much more forgiving than more modern injection pumps - thankfully so & another reason to keep repairing instead of buying modern.

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