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  #1  
Old 03-09-2014, 04:36 PM
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Injection pump oil lubrication question

I have been testing a timing light using the IP timing port tang as a trigger and drained the oil (about 1/3 quart) out of the IP when the closing plug was removed. I ran the engine with the sensor I made that goes into the timing port for probably a total of 10 to 15 minutes at idle with a few seconds of revving the engine to 3000 RPM. I took the sensor out today and was expecting 1/3 of a quart of oil to come out and to my surprise nothing came out! So I took out the 12 mm banjo bolt on the black nylon line that supplies oil to the IP, stuck it in a small bottle and started the engine and it filled the bottle (about 6 oz) in about 2 seconds.

Is there a priming procedure for the IP after the oil has been drained from it? I don't recall anything in the FSM other than a warning that a lot of oil will come out when the closing plug is removed.

My guess is there was an air lock in the IP sump. Next time I will leave the closing plug off, start the engine till I see oil flowing out of the port before putting the closing plug in.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
I have been testing a timing light using the IP timing port tang as a trigger and drained the oil (about 1/3 quart) out of the IP when the closing plug was removed. I ran the engine with the sensor I made that goes into the timing port for probably a total of 10 to 15 minutes at idle with a few seconds of revving the engine to 3000 RPM. I took the sensor out today and was expecting 1/3 of a quart of oil to come out and to my surprise nothing came out! So I took out the 12 mm banjo bolt on the black nylon line that supplies oil to the IP, stuck it in a small bottle and started the engine and it filled the bottle (about 6 oz) in about 2 seconds.

Is there a priming procedure for the IP after the oil has been drained from it? I don't recall anything in the FSM other than a warning that a lot of oil will come out when the closing plug is removed.

My guess is there was an air lock in the IP sump. Next time I will leave the closing plug off, start the engine till I see oil flowing out of the port before putting the closing plug in.
There is a Plug on the Same Side that the Port For the Timing Tool but up higher that can be used to add Oil.

However, the Oil line is supposed to eventually get Oil to the Governor.
See the yellow arrow in the pic.
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2014, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
There is a Plug on the Same Side that the Port For the Timing Tool but up higher that can be used to add Oil.

However, the Oil line is supposed to eventually get Oil to the Governor.
See the yellow arrow in the pic.
No need of a high volume of oil flow. So I suspect a designed flow restriction is present and makes it seem slow to fill.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
No need of a high volume of oil flow. So I suspect a designed flow restriction is present and makes it seem slow to fill.
How much of a flow restriction you think is there? The engine idled for 10 to 15 minutes and in that time, there was zero oil fill. That can not be right IMO. I will take the 12 mm banjo bolt out again and poke a wire in there to see if there is a restriction.
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  #5  
Old 03-10-2014, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
No need of a high volume of oil flow. So I suspect a designed flow restriction is present and makes it seem slow to fill.
On another Forum ForcedInduction said that the Fuel Injection Pump was pressure lubed. I said No and then decided to pull out an extra Fuel Injection Pump I have and sure enough where the Oil goes into the Housing is high enoug to pressure lube the Roller Tappets for sure and maybe eveve the the lower portion of the Elements.

So I was wrong.
As for restriction the Oil Tube itself has a narrow ID and also look inside of the Hole in the Fuel Injection Pump itself.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:32 AM
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I the Manual if the Fuel Injection Pump has never bee on the Engine or coming back from the Rebuilder it has you should ad X amount of Oil through the Oil Fill Plug in the Pic in one of My previous Posts.
That could be because it takes a long time for the Oil to get back there; but that is a guess.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I the Manual if the Fuel Injection Pump has never bee on the Engine or coming back from the Rebuilder it has you should ad X amount of Oil through the Oil Fill Plug in the Pic in one of My previous Posts.
That could be because it takes a long time for the Oil to get back there; but that is a guess.
It would be good practice to put oil in the pump after a rebuild just to get things going.

In my (limited) experience with IPs I've found a lot of gunk in them - perhaps removal of one of the side plates to see if it is full up with muck is worthwhile? The oil might not have been draining...

...the oil paths might be restricted.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
There is a Plug on the Same Side that the Port For the Timing Tool but up higher that can be used to add Oil.

However, the Oil line is supposed to eventually get Oil to the Governor.
See the yellow arrow in the pic.
I took out the oil line banjo bolt and poked a WD40 plastic straw in there and it does not go through. I blew compressed air in there and put the banjo back, cranked the engine with IP emergency shut off lever depressed for about 3 x 20 seconds and the timing port plug out and no oil came out of there.

Filled the IP with fresh oil via the top bolt (17 mm wrench). I'll check if it is fresh or black when I take the plug out again which may give an indication of oil flow rate.

Still like to know how much oil and at what rate it should be flowing into and out of the IP when running.
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Last edited by funola; 03-10-2014 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
On another Forum ForcedInduction said that the Fuel Injection Pump was pressure lubed. I said No and then decided to pull out an extra Fuel Injection Pump I have and sure enough where the Oil goes into the Housing is high enoug to pressure lube the Roller Tappets for sure and maybe eveve the the lower portion of the Elements.

So I was wrong.
As for restriction the Oil Tube itself has a narrow ID and also look inside of the Hole in the Fuel Injection Pump itself.
Can you please rewrite this so I may understand?
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
I took out the oil line banjo bolt and poked a WD40 plastic straw in there and it does not go through. I blew compressed air in there and put the banjo back, cranked the engine with IP emergency shut off lever depressed for about 3 x 20 seconds and the timing port plug out and no oil came out of there.

Filled the IP with fresh oil via the top bolt (17 mm wrench). I'll check if it is fresh or black when I take the plug out again which may give an indication of oil flow rate.

Still like to know how much oil and at what rate it should be flowing into and out of the IP when running.
Reasonable little feed required if there is no intent to use the oil to carry away heat. That introduction of oil then need only be at a drip rate. May be a requirement to pre fill is a reasonable suspicion.
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  #11  
Old 03-10-2014, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by funola View Post
Can you please rewrite this so I may understand?
On the MW Fuel Injection Pumps Roller Tappets are fed by pressurized Oil and maybe the lower part of the Elements (the lower part is where the Rack attaches).

I am adding this. The Rest of the Fuel Injection Pump is lubed by the Pool of Oil that stays in the Bottom because where it drains out is higher than the bottom.
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2014, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
It would be good practice to put oil in the pump after a rebuild just to get things going.

In my (limited) experience with IPs I've found a lot of gunk in them - perhaps removal of one of the side plates to see if it is full up with muck is worthwhile? The oil might not have been draining...

...the oil paths might be restricted.
On the Older Fuel Injection Pumps that are not lubed by the Engine Oil the Parts inside are also in better Shape and nice and clean.

The problem with the Older Pumps is people don't know they have their own Oil Sump and that you need to check the Oil level, add Oil and occasionaly change the Oil.
Some People never checked and ruined their Fuel Injection Pumps.

In that past there was a lot of inline Fuel Injection Pumps that had that were not lubed by the Oil from the Engine.
Where I worked We always filled them with straight 40wt Engine Oil even if the Engine used 30wt or 20wt Oil.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
On the Older Fuel Injection Pumps that are not lubed by the Engine Oil the Parts inside are also in better Shape and nice and clean.

The problem with the Older Pumps is people don't know they have their own Oil Sump and that you need to check the Oil level, add Oil and occasionaly change the Oil.
Some People never checked and ruined their Fuel Injection Pumps.

In that past there was a lot of inline Fuel Injection Pumps that had that were not lubed by the Oil from the Engine.
Where I worked We always filled them with straight 40wt Engine Oil even if the Engine used 30wt or 20wt Oil.
I was thinking a simple on its own lubrication system might also be better for turbos - so long as the owners look after each individual oil system. This is probably a big ask as most people don't realise that a differential needs its oil changed once in a while.

The one oil for all mantra is typical of commercial places - it is all about cost - not necessarily what is good for long term life of a component, because after all if these things last for ever then nobody would be back at the shop trying to get something fixed.
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2014, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
perhaps removal of one of the side plates to see if it is full up with muck is worthwhile?
it is easy on M pumps...

.
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