Stranded in parking lot, had to do the hammer trick - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

funola · #46 04-17-2014, 01:34 PM

I wouldn't call it a controversy. Often there's other ways to do something even though someone else says there is only one way. Different tools, looking at the job from another perspective, improvising etc, will produce different ways.

I don't like to use jackstands unless I really have to. Often, when I need to work from underneath, I use 2" thick solid white oak wood planks 2 ft by 12" that my woodworker friend gave me and drive over them. That gives me enough work room to crawl under to work on the starter. If that works for you physically you may want to give that a try. Another trick that will come in handy in tight spots where you cannot exert enough leverage on a short gear wrench by hand to break loose the starter bolt is to put a pipe on the gear wrench end and use a jack from below to break it loose, Or use a pipe from above and hammer on the gear wrench with a 2 ft long x 4" diameter tree branch. That's exactly what I did when I replaced the starter on my 83 300D turbo. I did not have the 2 ft long 1/2 drive extensions and universals since I do not own them but did try 3/8 extensions which failed miserably before improvising with the gear wrench on a 10 mm Allen cutoff.

Ps, you can use the factory jack, raise the car a little, shim the pipe onto the gear wrench with wood blocks on the ground and lower the jack to break loose the bolt.

sleepstar · #47 04-17-2014, 02:38 PM

if you have ramps, what i would do is use them to get under the car so you can get to the bolts. if you cant rotate the wheels then remove from the top.

funola · #48 04-17-2014, 03:09 PM

What you don't want is get into a situation where you can't get the starter motor out after removing it because you can't turn the steering wheel to get the clearance needed because it is on ramps and have to put the starter motor back on to get the car off the ramps. If I run into that situation, I'll probably get so pissed and blow it up with dynamite.

aieeegrunt · #49 04-17-2014, 03:56 PM

Tonight I am going to take the air cleaner off, asses how I am going to do it and let those Bolts Of Doom soak overnight with some of the stuff we use to loosen bolts at work.

I have a feeling this is going to be a combination of attacking it from above and below and probably lifting it out from the top

aieeegrunt · #50 04-17-2014, 07:31 PM

My preliminary recon suggests that the only way I can make this work is from below after taking the exhaust off. The starter is pretty much directly above it. Still not sure how I am going to finagle my way to getting at the top bolt.

The one nice thing about doing it from the bottom is I can use a jack to apply force to. Real the bolts loose.

Taking the exhaust off, is there a gasket that I have to replace where the down pipe meets the manifold?

cooljjay · #51 04-17-2014, 09:03 PM

I think you are making the starter removal more difficult.....remove the tray/cleaner, put a 10mm allen wrench on the starter top bolt and slide the 10mm closed end of the box wrench over it and then break the nut free. With the wheels pointed to the right, use the tire jack to raise the passenger side up, tire doesn't have to come off the ground, remove the bottom bolt and then slide the starter out over the tie rod.

removing the tray and cleaner also makes installing the starter wires a piece of cake.

ROLLGUY · #52 04-18-2014, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

removing the tray and cleaner also makes installing the starter wires a piece of cake.

Although I have never removed anything up top to replace a starter in an N/A, the wiring is the hardest part IMO. Removing the tray and cleaner would definitely make that job easier!

dude99 · #53 04-18-2014, 01:10 AM

The exhaust does not need to be removed on the NA 300D. I can't remember if I used an allen head socket or if I just put an allen key in it with a section of pipe over it for leverage, I did remove the air cleaner and the battery tray.

I do seem to remember that for some reason I had to remove the fill tube off of the auto trans though.... I think it interfered with access to one of the bolts....

funola · #54 04-18-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Although I have never removed anything up top to replace a starter in an N/A, the wiring is the hardest part IMO. Removing the tray and cleaner would definitely make that job easier!

Were you using a lift?

funola · #55 04-18-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude99

The exhaust does not need to be removed on the NA 300D. I can't remember if I used an allen head socket or if I just put an allen key in it with a section of pipe over it for leverage, I did remove the air cleaner and the battery tray.

I do seem to remember that for some reason I had to remove the fill tube off of the auto trans though.... I think it interfered with access to one of the bolts....

Yep. air cleaner, battery tray, heat shield (if you have a turbo) must come off to gain access to top bolt and wiring if you are working on the ground. Don't forget the bottom bracket on the starter or it won't budge.

kingdoc1 · #56 04-18-2014, 07:35 PM

OK, I have had my starter off no less than 3 time in the past week. Here is how I do it, and in my opinion the easiest and fastest method. Everything except disconnecting the battery is done from underneath the car, no need to remove air cleaner, turbo heat shield, etc.

1 Turn wheels all the way to the right.
2 Disconnect battery
3 Raise and support car on jackstands to where you can comfortably lay under it.
4 Remove the two 10mm head bolts holding the support bracket to the engine block, leave the other two in the starter.
5 use a stubby or offset phillips screwdriver to remove the small wire terminal screw from the starter solenoid
6 use a 17mm socket and short ratchet to remove the battery cable from the large terminal on the solenoid.
7 cut off a 10mm allen key about 1/2" long and insert the cutoff peice in the upper starter bolt, use a 10mm gearwrench to loosen and remove upper bolt. Leave the bolt in the hole, just slide it back enough to clear
8 use a fine tooth 3/8 ratchet with a 10mm allen bit to remove the lower bolt, again leave the bolt in the hole, just slide it back enough to clear
9 remove the starter from below, through the gap between the frame and the idler arm

I would strongly suggest chasing the threads on the replacement starter with a tap before installation, it will make starting the mounting bolts easier.

Installation:
1. Transfer the support bracket to the new starter, but only hand tighten the two bolts for now.
2. feed the starter up into the hole and start the lower bolt with your right hand while supporting the starter with your left. Turn it in until the starter is supported but you can still wiggle it up and down.
3 continue supporting the starter with your left hand and start the top bolt with your right hand, you may need to wiggle the starter up or down to get the bolt to turn freely.
4. when both bolts are started, tighten them using the same tools and method used to remove them.
5. install the remaining support bracket bolts and tighten all bolts.
6. Install the battery cable on the large solenoid terminal.
7. Install the wire terminal on the small solenoid terminal.
8. lower the car back to the ground
9. reconnect battery.

I have found this to be the easiest way for me, I can do the whole job in about 45 minutes. Others may find it easier other ways, so I am not saying my way is the best for everyone, just offering my method as a help to others.

aieeegrunt · #57 04-18-2014, 09:13 PM

That is a very comprehensive and well described methodology! Thank you for that. The issue I am going to run into is having to use ramps instead of jack stands. I don't know if you can get away with cranking the wheels on a ramp.

I need to do some work on the exhaust anyways, it seemed like a two birds one stone scenario.

I would like to thank everybody for their advise, insight and suggestions in this thread. The forum is a tremendous resource to a noob like myself and I cannot express my appreciation enough

ROLLGUY · #58 04-18-2014, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdoc1

OK, I have had my starter off no less than 3 time in the past week. Here is how I do it, and in my opinion the easiest and fastest method. Everything except disconnecting the battery is done from underneath the car, no need to remove air cleaner, turbo heat shield, etc.

1 Turn wheels all the way to the right.
2 Disconnect battery
3 Raise and support car on jackstands to where you can comfortably lay under it.
4 Remove the two 10mm head bolts holding the support bracket to the engine block, leave the other two in the starter.
5 use a stubby or offset phillips screwdriver to remove the small wire terminal screw from the starter solenoid
6 use a 17mm socket and short ratchet to remove the battery cable from the large terminal on the solenoid.
7 cut off a 10mm allen key about 1/2" long and insert the cutoff peice in the upper starter bolt, use a 10mm gearwrench to loosen and remove upper bolt. Leave the bolt in the hole, just slide it back enough to clear
8 use a fine tooth 3/8 ratchet with a 10mm allen bit to remove the lower bolt, again leave the bolt in the hole, just slide it back enough to clear
9 remove the starter from below, through the gap between the frame and the idler arm

I would strongly suggest chasing the threads on the replacement starter with a tap before installation, it will make starting the mounting bolts easier.

Installation:
1. Transfer the support bracket to the new starter, but only hand tighten the two bolts for now.
2. feed the starter up into the hole and start the lower bolt with your right hand while supporting the starter with your left. Turn it in until the starter is supported but you can still wiggle it up and down.
3 continue supporting the starter with your left hand and start the top bolt with your right hand, you may need to wiggle the starter up or down to get the bolt to turn freely.
4. when both bolts are started, tighten them using the same tools and method used to remove them.
5. install the remaining support bracket bolts and tighten all bolts.
6. Install the battery cable on the large solenoid terminal.
7. Install the wire terminal on the small solenoid terminal.
8. lower the car back to the ground
9. reconnect battery.

I have found this to be the easiest way for me, I can do the whole job in about 45 minutes. Others may find it easier other ways, so I am not saying my way is the best for everyone, just offering my method as a help to others.

I agree with everything said and find it exactly the way I have done and will do it, except using a gear wrench for the starter bolts. I have had to use 1/2" drive extensions and ratchet (sometimes a breaker bar) to break loose the bolts, and I can't imagine that any 10mm gear wrench would be strong enough to break the bolts loose. It sounds much easier than snaking 36"-48" worth of extensions up next to the trans, but I would fear breaking a wrench. You can do it how you choose, and with the tools you have available. However, I am not going to try it that way with my 10mm gear wrench...Rich

funola · #59 04-20-2014, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I agree with everything said and find it exactly the way I have done and will do it, except using a gear wrench for the starter bolts. I have had to use 1/2" drive extensions and ratchet (sometimes a breaker bar) to break loose the bolts, and I can't imagine that any 10mm gear wrench would be strong enough to break the bolts loose. It sounds much easier than snaking 36"-48" worth of extensions up next to the trans, but I would fear breaking a wrench. You can do it how you choose, and with the tools you have available. However, I am not going to try it that way with my 10mm gear wrench...Rich

Hmmm, I thought you do it from below and do not remove anything from the top? Did you use a lift, that makes a big difference in which tools work and which do not. Using a gear wrench with a 4 ft pipe extension probably voids a manufacturers warranty but it is the only tool which will work if you do not all the necessary 1/2 extensions or a lift which makes using the extensions much easier. A box wrench, 6 point or 12 point does not work since you can not choke up on it with a long pipe like a gearwrench. The gearwrench on an allen bit cutoff gets you into tighter quarters where a ratchet with a allen driver bit can't.

In this post OM617 starter removal woes
there's more discussions and I show a pic of my gearwrench + allen setup which has saved my butt many times. It didn't break. If it did, I go get another one since it has lifetime warranty.

aieeegrunt · #60 04-21-2014, 04:21 PM

Mission Accomplished!

Summarizing I put the front of the car up on ramps, removed the air cleaner, removed the exhaust, disconnected the battery, and did everything else from beneath the car.

I cleaned the bolt heads thoroughly with brake cleaner, soaked them in liquid wrench, and left it for the night. Came back the next day. Removed the small wire connection with a stubby star head. Removed the large wire connection with a 17mm wrench.

Loosened off the lower bolt with a 3/8th drive socket and an Allen bit. Loosened the top bolt by adding a universal joint to the socket and then the Allen bit. The top bolt was very annoying to keep seated, it took a while to get that to work. Once I had them loose I supported the starter with one hand while unthreading the bolts just enough to remove the starter.

Installing the new starter was basically the reverse of removal. The replacement starter was a rebuilt Bosch. It was looked almost identical to the original starter, but the little gear inside that meshes with the flywheel looked longer, and the unit was noticeably heavier.

Wow, what a difference in starting power! Engine fires instantly on first crank.

Things overall went very smoothly. The two most time consuming parts of the job was getting the bolts that hold the exhaust downpipe loosened off, and getting at the fracking top bolt of the starter.

Previous write ups I have seen of this procedure mention a support bracket. I didn't have one, and althought there were bolt holes on the end of the starter opposite the gears I didn't see anywhere for a bracket to attach to the car.