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  #16  
Old 05-04-2014, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro View Post
"Not anywhere near as shade tree mechanic friendly" is the key phrase here.
Nail. Head. Bang.

Discussion of what is low mileage and what is not is irrelevant.

The newer the Mercedes in play, the more likelihood that there are multiple components that are not economically feasible to repair once the car leaves warranty.

There may be cases where the higher-mileage example is a better buy, IF for example an expensive component has been replaced.

What you are seeing is the radical depreciation that has always been the norm for other luxury marques such as Jaguar and Range Rover, which are uneconomical to repair out of warranty. The market responds to that and prices fall accordingly.

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  #17  
Old 05-04-2014, 04:36 AM
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The phrase I used was "non high mileage," not "low miles"....there is a difference. In CDI terms, I think of 250k as high miles....until now, it was only CDI's with that kind of mileage that could be had for 10K.

FYI here's the ad I noticed: 2005 Mercedes E230 CDI Turbo Diesel
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06 E320 CDI "Benson", Platinum Blue, 187k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU
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91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 138k mi, wastegate conversion

19 Honda CR-V EX 42k mi
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2014, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
There is no " 'NEW' 100K". 100K, is 100K. It always has been too...

"160K miles," is never "low-mileage," for any car.

Where the OP came up with that one - well, he's going to have to explain where he did......lol
My point was -
while car dealers, and some people, still consider 100K the 'kiss of death', the notion that any car is worn out at 100K is no longer automatically true. Every vehicle I drive, now has over 160K, and I expect at least some of them to make it to 200K before any major repairs are needed to the engine or drivetrain.
It does help to own vehicles that have earned a reputation for reliability, and are relatively simple and easy to work on, like my W123 diesels, and my 4-cylinder '96 Toyota Camry.
OTOH, This trend has been reversing somewhat, as the excess complexity of newer high-tech, electronics-infested vehicles, and the high cost of labor, means that the average human can no longer repair them, or afford to pay someone who can, once serious problems occur past the warranty.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
Sure it is. For a 123.

- Peter.
Considering I had 460k on my 82 wagon and have 260k on my current one and both run and drive like new... I have to agree...
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro View Post
..... Every vehicle I drive, now has over 160K, and I expect at least some of them to make it to 200K before any major repairs are needed to the engine or drivetrain.
It does help to own vehicles that have earned a reputation for reliability, and are relatively simple and easy to work on, like my W123 diesels, and my 4-cylinder '96 Toyota Camry.
OTOH, This trend has been reversing somewhat, as the excess complexity of newer high-tech, electronics-infested vehicles, and the high cost of labor, means that the average human can no longer repair them, or afford to pay someone who can, once serious problems occur past the warranty.

Happy Motoring, Mark
My 06 CDI now has 220K on the clock, while I don't have the service records for the first 165K miles I can say I've got exactly 0 major repairs on it at this point and given the way it runs I don't see any reason at all it won't make 300K plus with no major repairs. I feel I do own a vehicle with a reputation for reliability.

As far as the comments about electronics go please keep in mind that electronics and computer integration are a bit of a double-edged sword. If you have the knowledge and the right diagnostic equipment working on these later model cars is actually EASIER than the old W123's.

Let me give you an example....

Last week my CDI had its first (to me) issue. The transmission started to shift strangely and then it went into limp-home mode. In limp-home mode the transmission ECU determined that something had failed and locked the transmission in 2nd gear. I made it home without issue and hooked the car up to a Star Compact 3 clone computer. After entering the transmission module I read the trans codes and got a code for a turbine speed sensor. I then went into live data mode to review the data associated with the transmission in real-time mode. Looking at the speed sensor data I could see that the data for the Y3/6n3 hall-effect speed sensor was missing in all gears where it should have been present. I then pulled up the wiring diagrams (all in the same lap-top computer) and reviewed the wiring diagrams for the ETC controller. I confirmed that all hall-effect speed sensors are fed power and ground from a common source so I was pretty sure that it wasn't a power/ground issue since the other speed sensor was operating normally. I then went on-line and did a search on Y3/6n3 and discovered that this was a fairly normal issue and the cure was an updated conductor plate. There were several threads that detailed the procedure and I was able to fix my car for about $200 in parts in 3 hours labor.

More importantly I was able to diagnose a transmission problem and get to the problem WITHOUT EVEN PICKING UP A WRENCH or turning 1 bolt.

Star Diagnostic clones are available on e-bay for $500-$600 and they make it more than possible for the average DIY'er that is willing to spend a little time and learn how to use it.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shertex View Post
The phrase I used was "non high mileage," not "low miles"....there is a difference. In CDI terms, I think of 250k as high miles....until now, it was only CDI's with that kind of mileage that could be had for 10K.

FYI here's the ad I noticed: 2005 Mercedes E230 CDI Turbo Diesel
OK. Word gaming then, I see. Start over; "160K miles" on any car, including any CDI, is not; "non high mileage." Fixed......
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TimFreeh View Post
My 06 CDI now has 220K on the clock, while I don't have the service records for the first 165K miles I can say I've got exactly 0 major repairs on it at this point and given the way it runs I don't see any reason at all it won't make 300K plus with no major repairs. I feel I do own a vehicle with a reputation for reliability.

As far as the comments about electronics go please keep in mind that electronics and computer integration are a bit of a double-edged sword. If you have the knowledge and the right diagnostic equipment working on these later model cars is actually EASIER than the old W123's.

Let me give you an example....

Last week my CDI had its first (to me) issue. The transmission started to shift strangely and then it went into limp-home mode. In limp-home mode the transmission ECU determined that something had failed and locked the transmission in 2nd gear. I made it home without issue and hooked the car up to a Star Compact 3 clone computer. After entering the transmission module I read the trans codes and got a code for a turbine speed sensor. I then went into live data mode to review the data associated with the transmission in real-time mode. Looking at the speed sensor data I could see that the data for the Y3/6n3 hall-effect speed sensor was missing in all gears where it should have been present. I then pulled up the wiring diagrams (all in the same lap-top computer) and reviewed the wiring diagrams for the ETC controller. I confirmed that all hall-effect speed sensors are fed power and ground from a common source so I was pretty sure that it wasn't a power/ground issue since the other speed sensor was operating normally. I then went on-line and did a search on Y3/6n3 and discovered that this was a fairly normal issue and the cure was an updated conductor plate. There were several threads that detailed the procedure and I was able to fix my car for about $200 in parts in 3 hours labor.

More importantly I was able to diagnose a transmission problem and get to the problem WITHOUT EVEN PICKING UP A WRENCH or turning 1 bolt.

Star Diagnostic clones are available on e-bay for $500-$600 and they make it more than possible for the average DIY'er that is willing to spend a little time and learn how to use it.
The idea that a DIYer cannot possibly work on a CDI, is of course ludicrous.
Perhaps some DIY guys aren't able to learn, but they most likely don't have a newer MB diesel in the first place.

About high miles.....I experienced many a long run of mileage stints on my high-mileage cars/trucks, with no issues, simply because so many things were replaced on them, that another thing did not break or malfunction in quite a number of miles and months. There really is no way to predict the when of items or issues on any car presenting itself as a malfunction. A LOT has to do with chance. Too many examples can be given that verify this in my experience with the matter.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2014, 07:53 PM
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Hey, I didn't say this fear or trepidation was rational. Consumers are fickle, the move in massive packs like collectives...their behavior is what drives used car prices.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
There is no " 'NEW' 100K". 100K, is 100K. It always has been too...

"160K miles," is never "low-mileage," for any car.

Where the OP came up with that one - well, he's going to have to explain where he did......lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Perhaps to you it is, but "160K" is not "low-miles."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
OK. Word gaming then, I see. Start over; "160K miles" on any car, including any CDI, is not; "non high mileage." Fixed......
Says who? Mileage is completely subjective. I define low miles as <100k and high miles as >200k for most newer cars; for older vehicles, I adjust my expectations based on the vehicle.
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2014, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
Says who? Mileage is completely subjective. I define low miles as <100k and high miles as >200k for most newer cars; for older vehicles, I adjust my expectations based on the vehicle.


Sez me......AND the rest of the auto market in America....

"160K miles" is HIGH MILEAGE.
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2014, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post


Sez me......AND the rest of the auto market in America....

"160K miles" is HIGH MILEAGE.
I for one am glad that there are people who view 160k as high mileage....makes it better for buyers who don't.
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06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black, 160k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU
91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 138k mi, wastegate conversion

19 Honda CR-V EX 42k mi
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2014, 11:58 PM
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Perhaps irrelevant but still a fun story...both sides of my family are from Greece. This past summer, we hop in a E270 CDI cab (not unusual, most taxis are 210s, 211s in the city with 123s and 124s on the islands). I check the odometer since it's basically a detuned 5 cylinder version of my OM648 back home. 671000km. I compliment the driver on his apparently careful upkeep to which he replies that its already rolled over once...1671000 km!! The other 4-5 211s all had 250-750k showing on their odos as well. They seem to be holding up well.
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  #28  
Old 05-04-2014, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by shertex View Post
I for one am glad that there are people who view 160k as high mileage....makes it better for buyers who don't.
I for one am too, when I'm selling a; high-mileage, "160K miles" car to an unsuspecting schmoe, that believes "160K is low/non-high mileage".......
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2014, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RLGDiesel View Post
Perhaps irrelevant but still a fun story...both sides of my family are from Greece. This past summer, we hop in a E270 CDI cab (not unusual, most taxis are 210s, 211s in the city with 123s and 124s on the islands). I check the odometer since it's basically a detuned 5 cylinder version of my OM648 back home. 671000km. I compliment the driver on his apparently careful upkeep to which he replies that its already rolled over once...1671000 km!! The other 4-5 211s all had 250-750k showing on their odos as well. They seem to be holding up well.
Anything, will "hold up well," with enough $$$ poured into it......ask me how I know.
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2014, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
I for one am too, when I'm selling a; high-mileage, "160K miles" car to an unsuspecting schmoe, that believes "160K is low/non-high mileage".......
So, is that what you did when you sold your " bought new never leased 1999 E300TD bought new in Omaha" to your brother?

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