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  #1  
Old 06-03-2014, 02:38 PM
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Replacing a 617 in a 1983 G wagen with a 606

I have a customer with the project listed in the title of the thread. The engine just arrived, it's out of a '99 E with an automatic, the truck has a manual and the owner would like to keep it that way. Looking for a few leads on some things, as I don't have experience with this engine, though I have played with a fair number of G-Wagens over the last few years.

So- what are the pitfalls I can get into with this project? A starting list:

1: This engine came to me without the turbo, what's a good source for a reasonably priced rebuilt unit? Related, what will I need to get the intercooler into the truck?

2: Flywheel- Looks like all the American versions of this engine came in cars that only had automatics, thus they all have flexplates instead of flywheels, anyone know where a suitable flywheel can be found? Semi-related, I once was putting an international 2.8 TGV diesel into a Land Rover and found out, way too late, that the customer had ordered an engine meant for an automatic, which had a different crankshaft that the transmission pilot bearing wouldn't fit in. Any similar troubles here?

3: transmission: will the bellhousing bolt up the same to the back of the engine?

4: Engine mounts- Will the mounts from the 606 go to the same spot on the frame, is there a bracket kit available, or am I going to have to start cutting and welding onto the frame?

5: Injection pump- what sensors need to be connected to what to get the fuel pump to operate correctly? Or do I go with the plan the customer says he saw a few people doing which is install a pump from a 603? And what is the shutoff for these two pumps- doesn't look like the 606 is still that junk vacuum system that Mercedes clearly knew was going to fail on the 617, evidenced by the secondary cutoff lever.

and 6: Do I need an electric vacuum pump for brake boost? don't see a pump on this engine.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys may be able to give me- I want to give this guy back a better truck than he's bringing me, and do so as quickly as possible. And if anyone has a solution to a problem I don't even know I have yet, please feel free to add it to the list...

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  #2  
Old 06-03-2014, 02:52 PM
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the injection pump will not work without its control unit and the control unit will not work without its network pieces i.e. the car.

you can mount a 603 pump on it, but it wont fuel enough and wont let it rev high enough.

The engine has a vacuum pump on the front of the engine like the other 60x engines. The mechanical injection pump models of this engine OM606.910 used in 1995 E300D is also vacuum shut off like its older generations.

There are a few threads here in which people have installed a manual trans behind the NA version of this engine.
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2014, 02:58 PM
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If the customer is coming to you to do this job, and you're asking these kinds of questions, he would be well advised to look elsewhere for this work to be done.

Sorry to be curt, but you've obviously never worked with Mercedes diesels much, have not done even a cursory search of the wealth of information available on the forums and come in with your first post asking everyone to spoon feed you with information that is for the most part readily available with just a little bit of effort.
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  #4  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach4 View Post
If the customer is coming to you to do this job, and you're asking these kinds of questions, he would be well advised to look elsewhere for this work to be done.

Sorry to be curt, but you've obviously never worked with Mercedes diesels much, have not done even a cursory search of the wealth of information available on the forums and come in with your first post asking everyone to spoon feed you with information that is for the most part readily available with just a little bit of effort.
x2

Sorry bud, but you're going to be wading for this project. It's been done before, expect to pay $1500+ to get the right injection pump on there for starters.
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  #5  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:40 PM
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Manual transmission and the flywheel in the truck will not bolt to the 606. 61X and 60X have entirely different bell housings. You'd need a transmission from a 230GE 300GE or 60X 250GD G290 G300D 300GD and the flywheel.

A 190E, 190D, or 300E USA 5speed transmission and flywheel will bolt up to a 606 but I have no idea if they could be adapted to your transfer case.

It sounds like he sent you an engine on a palette, not a donor car. You've got a lot of stuff to make or source at this point.
As mentioned the only way to make it run is the 603T full mechanical IP which should be modified to perform with the intercooled 606T.
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2014, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach4 View Post
If the customer is coming to you to do this job, and you're asking these kinds of questions, he would be well advised to look elsewhere for this work to be done.

Sorry to be curt, but you've obviously never worked with Mercedes diesels much, have not done even a cursory search of the wealth of information available on the forums and come in with your first post asking everyone to spoon feed you with information that is for the most part readily available with just a little bit of effort.
Ouch- but then again a little criticism never hurt anybody.

Most of our experience is in Rovers, and putting Mercedes engines in Rovers. This project got off to a bad start as the engine the customer supplied came without all the necessary bits and pieces.

And yes- this is a shot in the dark. I'd rather risk a bit of my ego than steer someone wrong. Pride has its place, but pretending I know the answers when I need more pieces to the puzzle would be folly.
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2014, 05:40 AM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
Manual transmission and the flywheel in the truck will not bolt to the 606. 61X and 60X have entirely different bell housings. You'd need a transmission from a 230GE 300GE or 60X 250GD G290 G300D 300GD and the flywheel.

A 190E, 190D, or 300E USA 5speed transmission and flywheel will bolt up to a 606 but I have no idea if they could be adapted to your transfer case.

It sounds like he sent you an engine on a palette, not a donor car. You've got a lot of stuff to make or source at this point.
As mentioned the only way to make it run is the 603T full mechanical IP which should be modified to perform with the intercooled 606T.
Thank you, wholeheartedly. Yes, it did arrive on a palette. We aren't sure wiho packed it up, but they didn't get everything and we figured it might be difficult to garner the pieces. The customer is aware of how it arrived, we're just trying to figure out if we can get. It all together since some of this could be hard to find.
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:21 AM
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actually,,, with modifications, the bellhousing will fit the motor...

it takes a LOT of modifications, but the alignment pins fit properly, and the centering is right.
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:23 AM
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also... the "electronic" IP is manually controlled by a cable that the "electronic" actuator controls...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #10  
Old 06-04-2014, 11:20 AM
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You're going to need:

Fabricated engine mounts
Different transmission (easier than making an adapter)
Probably modified driveshafts
Intercooler
EGT & Boost gauge setup

If you want the legendary 606 power, you will want a modified injection pump which runs around $1500.
A nice tubular exhaust manifold wouldn't hurt either (~800eu or fabricate)
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
also... the "electronic" IP is manually controlled by a cable that the "electronic" actuator controls...
You should also explain how to get his ECU to work without the transmission being present.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2014, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourS4x4 View Post
Thank you, wholeheartedly. Yes, it did arrive on a palette. We aren't sure wiho packed it up, but they didn't get everything and we figured it might be difficult to garner the pieces. The customer is aware of how it arrived, we're just trying to figure out if we can get. It all together since some of this could be hard to find.
With all due respect, unless your customer has very unlimited deep pockets, I would not even venture a guess as to the cost of doing this job, much less coming up with the proper sensors and relays. To come up with an estimate would be nearly impossible, unless you are given a blank check. Good luck!!
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
You should also explain how to get his ECU to work without the transmission being present.
I think the consensus would be to replace the injection pump with an older mechanical version, eliminating the need for said ECU.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pimpernell View Post
With all due respect, unless your customer has very unlimited deep pockets, I would not even venture a guess as to the cost of doing this job, much less coming up with the proper sensors and relays. To come up with an estimate would be nearly impossible, unless you are given a blank check. Good luck!!
Not to disparage anyone (I a _very_ frugal man MYSELF), but for some consumers of the finer marques, dropping $10k or $20k on such a conversion is not out of the question. Let's not get bent out of shape if this project costs more than all four of my last Mercedes purchases put together!

Owning a G-wagon with an OM606 would be a wonderful thing. I'd love to see how this comes together.
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'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxbumpo View Post
I think the consensus would be to replace the injection pump with an older mechanical version, eliminating the need for said ECU.

I'm fully aware, read my first post. I read VSTech's post as the pump situation is simplier than we all had made it, I disagree.

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