Hey Gang,

I have searched exhaustively through here and STD, and I am curious about folks' experience with the timing lock accuracy. (Motor at 15 atc.)

Do you guys find you have to adjust the timing much from this spec, (e.g. is it a more of an ideal factory setting (new timing chain, etc, etc) and I will need to drip test to get it "dialed in", after I have it "in the ballpark"); or can I just attach the lines, bleed, and be done?

FYI: My flange/block had chisel marks that were spot on when I reinstalled the IP.

(Another question, how creative can one get with the drip tool? Does it need to be hardline? -Thanks all)

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72% 1992 FJ80 + 17% 1983 OM617 + 10% 85/87/92 4Runner + *Eclipse/GMC = 100% Truck
(*<1%)
Build Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-humble-fj80-om617-r151f-swap.759554/

Those marks will align whenever the IP housing is reinstalled in the same location. But they don't necessarily mean anything of consequence.

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When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

Definitely; I only meant it in the context of the lock tool being on the IP and the crank being at 15 atc. That is the last movable variable, correct? (It ran fine prior to the removal of the pump.) Thanks for the help!

__________________
72% 1992 FJ80 + 17% 1983 OM617 + 10% 85/87/92 4Runner + *Eclipse/GMC = 100% Truck
(*<1%)
Build Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-humble-fj80-om617-r151f-swap.759554/

And by timing lock, I mean... (I have deepened the groove so it engages more!)

__________________
72% 1992 FJ80 + 17% 1983 OM617 + 10% 85/87/92 4Runner + *Eclipse/GMC = 100% Truck
(*<1%)
Build Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-humble-fj80-om617-r151f-swap.759554/

I insalled My own Fuel Injection Pump with the Timing Locking Tool and subjectivly it has been running fine for 3-4 years like that.
So it is at least functional and does not takes a minium of sill to use.

The Timing Locking Pin uses the same reference point inside of the Fuel Injection Pump Governor as the RIV and A&B Light does and timed at 15 degrees after top dead center past the compression stroke.
Because all of the above methods use a part of the Governor Weight Carrier as a reference point those methods do not compensate for any wear on the Camshaft or Pins and Rollers of the Fuel Injection Pump.


The Drip Timing method can be extremely accurate but you need to develop some skill to do it properly and that is where the beginner gets into trouble. So the accuracy is dependent on the skill of the Person doing it.

So essentially all of the Timing Methods have some inaccuracy to them.

I have been recommending the Timing Locking Pin because it takes less skill and I believe it is accurate enough for normal use.

However, you cannot alter it. When you drip time you can set the the Fuel Injection Pump to a wider range of degrees if that is what you want to do. I think you can also do that with the RIV Method because the RIV has a Timing Light hooked to it.
Also while the Drip Timing Method compensates for Camshaft, Pin and Roller wear it only does so on one Element of the Fuel Injection Pump. It is assumed that the reast of the Elements in the Fuel Injection Pump are in a similar state.

The A&B Light is another static timing method so it only is correct at one spot.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

You can use the Drip Method on any degrees that you pic but it always has to have the proper X drips per second no matter what degree you pick to adjust it to.

Reguardless of what is happening to the Timing Chain the Fuel Injection pump is timed to the Camshaft.

As an example there is 2 Timings that a stretched Timing Chain effects. It effects the Valve Timing and the Fuel Injection Pump Timing.

Re-timing the Fuel Injection Pump fixes the Fuel Injection Pump Timing because it is timed to the Crankshaft.

The above would not change the Valve timing. The Fix for the Valve Timing would be to use an Offset Woodruff Key to correct the Valve Timing or of course replace The Timing Chain. If you are going to correct the Valve timiming the Fuel Injection Pump Timing should be done after that.

If the Fuel Injection Pump have never been off of the Engine chances are that the Fuel Injection Timing is late due to Timing Chain/Gears stretch or wear.
It takes only a tiny movement of the Fuel Injection pump to correct that. I am saying like one or two 32nds of an inch rotation.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

The chisled Mark on the Housing is a mark that someone has put on it. It is good to have a mark on the Housing if the Pump has not been removed before and you are re-timing it as the Mark is a reference for You. However, there is no make from the Factory as there is on other Vehicles or equipment.

If you pull the Pump out and re-insert it the Mark is kind of useless becaus it is the Camshaft of the Pump that has to line up with a Mark on the Bearing Cap of the Fuel Injection pump and that is hidden from view. When you stick the Pump back in properly the Chisel Mark may not line up.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Are you 100% sure about that?

Whether it lines up or not, it's meaningless once the pump has been removed.

__________________
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

I agree.
I think a lot of People are used to Rotary type Fuel Injection Pumps where the Flange is marked and there is a corresponding mark on the Engine or the Bracket that the Fuel Injection Pump Mounts on.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Thanks for the input gang, I'll bolt her up in a bit here an give her a whirl.

It's actually comforting if the chisel mark is not original. That would mean it was timed at some point after the factory, which would (theoretically!) mean it was closer to the wear it has now. I had it running fine not too long ago, and I didn't adjust the cam to crank time.

Drip timing sounds like where it's at; now I just need the watch folks that know what they are doing, and then metamorphose into some kind of handy diesel timing octopus...

BTW: How highly do you guys recommend this fellow's "drip technique"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh3rPhwnizY

__________________
72% 1992 FJ80 + 17% 1983 OM617 + 10% 85/87/92 4Runner + *Eclipse/GMC = 100% Truck
(*<1%)
Build Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-humble-fj80-om617-r151f-swap.759554/

I would not take too much comfort in that notion. I've seen too many of those marks to believe that they did not come from the factory.

The only apparent function of the mark is to verify that the pump has not moved from the intended position.

__________________
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

Roger that; so "drip it or quit it" say ye?

__________________
72% 1992 FJ80 + 17% 1983 OM617 + 10% 85/87/92 4Runner + *Eclipse/GMC = 100% Truck
(*<1%)
Build Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-humble-fj80-om617-r151f-swap.759554/

Tried to start at 15 atc with timing set to lock pin. Sputter; no start. White smoke.

Ordering crush washer/s and obtaining/fabricating a drip tool.

Any secret voodoo/uncanny hints/advice not in the FSM/IP Drip Timing thread? I will likely use a suspended reservoir of some sort. If I applied pressure, how many psi would you guys say to use for 1 drip/sec? Is there a factory spec for this I have overlooked?

Thanks All!

__________________
72% 1992 FJ80 + 17% 1983 OM617 + 10% 85/87/92 4Runner + *Eclipse/GMC = 100% Truck
(*<1%)
Build Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-humble-fj80-om617-r151f-swap.759554/

Are these factory marks on my 85 300D? AFAIK my IP timing has never been messed with.

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

I'm dreading the inevitable first removal and adjustment of my IP. I have read tons of advice here on how to do it.

Your method seems OK, but you may want to check the cam lobe position. As you are turning to set the crank at 15 deg ADC, stop at 24 BDC and look at the 1st two lobes of the camshaft, by looking into the oil fill hole. They need to be pointing up, perhaps looking like 11 and 1 on a clock face, or 10 and 2.

If they are pointing up, you are on the correct revolution. Continue turning the crank until 15 ADC.

The crank turns 2x for every 1x turn of the camshaft. Without checking the cam position, you have a 50% chance of being 180 degrees wrong on the IP adjustment.

You may have done your adjustment with the cam lobes pointing down instead.

Be advised that I have never removed and adjusted an IP, so my advice on this may have no value.

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1st MBz: 1982 300SD
2nd MBz: 1987 300SDL
3rd MBz: 1995 S420
4th MBz: 1987 190DT
5th MBz: 1984 300SD w/1983 300DT engine
6th MBz: 1999 C230k I'm 3rd owner, got it w/57,235 miles.
and manages Mom's 2007 R320 CDI