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  #31  
Old 07-09-2014, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
My claim I based on 33 trips to the pump, 646.1 gallons consumed and 22,433 miles traveled. My odometer and speedometer have been verified vs several GPS devices and the fuel stations are regularly tested for accuracy by the state. Your claim is based on 2 observations of the trip computer. When you say your car's mileage was 61% above the average of 12 other identical cars with data points covering 176,000 miles, 2 observations of the trip computer is not going to be enough to convince me or anybody willing to apply a modicum of critical thought. Your car may very well be capable of 48mpg and that would be great but without the data to back it up...

Join fuelly or any of the other similar sites and track your mileage over the long run. It doesn't allow to you simply enter a random MPG number from your trip computer because they know how inaccurate that can be.. You must have both miles traveled and gallons to full in order to make an entry. Its free and after few fill ups we'll see exactly what the car is capable of.

cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Fair enough......I'm still waiting to see a *verrified* 38.1 mpg from ANY 87 300D.

Oh, the irony!
That ok, seeing has never been your strong point

Quote:
http://wiki.mercedes-benz-classic.com/index.php/W124-300D-Getriebe/en

300 D / W 124 D 30, 1985 - 1989
Engine type OM 603 D 30 / 603.912
Gearing 5-speed manual transmission
Gear ratios I: 3.86; II: 2.18; III: 1.38; IV: 1.0; V: 0.80; R: 4.22
Fuel consumption 5.4 / 7.0 / 9.8 l/100km
https://tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html

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Last edited by tjts1; 07-09-2014 at 08:37 PM.
  #32  
Old 07-09-2014, 09:15 PM
JimFreeh's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
My claim I based on 33 trips to the pump, 646.1 gallons consumed and 22,433 miles traveled. My odometer and speedometer have been verified vs several GPS devices and the fuel stations are regularly tested for accuracy by the state. Your claim is based on 2 observations of the trip computer. When you say your car's mileage was 61% above the average of 12 other identical cars with data points covering 176,000 miles, 2 observations of the trip computer is not going to be enough to convince me or anybody willing to apply a modicum of critical thought. Your car may very well be capable of 48mpg and that would be great but without the data to back it up...

Join fuelly or any of the other similar sites and track your mileage over the long run. It doesn't allow to you simply enter a random MPG number from your trip computer because they know how inaccurate that can be.. You must have both miles traveled and gallons to full in order to make an entry. Its free and after few fill ups we'll see exactly what the car is capable of.

cheers
This will be my last post on this subject.

I hope you enjoy your W124, I'm sure you think very highly of the car. They are nice cars, I still own two of them.
You realize, of course, the number you cited above from wike is for a constant 53.8 mph? Do you really drive like that in the real world?

I really don't care to try to defend my observations to you. It's not important to me, and I've already told you what I have observed. For me, it is a game to see how high I can get the mpg number, and I am constantly aware of what the car is achieving at any given time (thanks to that wonderful computer that you hate). I'm not into hypermiling, just comfortable travel. My wife drove 50% of the outbound AND return trip, and she is not one to be concerned with overall mileage. The fact that the CDI can generate these MPG numbers without even trying hard is quite impressive. I'm not going to quibble over a slight variance with calculated vs computer, I only reported my observations of the computer.

My numbers have been reproduced by others, they are not at all out of line with what I can reproduce on the car at any time. It is what it is. You may choose not believe it, as others no doubt question your observations on your own car. I'm not the unaware typical owner. I'm an engineer trained to look at facts without emotional bias, and I've been wrenching on cars for over 40 years.

You paint with a broad brush the inaccuracies of the computers. Have you ever driven a W211 CDI for any distance? I've put 14K miles on mine so far, and I know for a fact that the computer is very consistent and close to my calculated mpg. As I said, close enough that I stopped trying to log every fillup. I have 8 cars/trucks, I don't have the time or inclination to go bat-sh** anal on each one. I can reproduce these numbers, and so can my cousin. That's a cumlative 64K on CDIs. I'm happy with my mpg, and I was very pleasantly surprised to see an observed high mileage number based upon a 500 mile trip at relatively high speed with aircon running the entire trip.

I sure didn't expect to get accused as a charlatan when I posted the results. Looking at your postings, you appear to revel in taking an antagonistic approach to any idea you do not personally subscribe to. If, indeed, you can get your claimed mileage out of a W124 300D, imagine how much more you would get from a W211 CDI. Why I bet you could outdo my results, easily. Why don't you drive one and find out firsthand what amazing cars these are? Given some time to understand how these cars work, I'm sure you could do much better than my cousin and I can achieve. My car didn't deliver these mpg results when I bought it, I've spent some time tweaking it to max out the numbers, so I don't expect every CDI to achieve the same mpg. Remember, your mileage may vary....

The W211 CDI is a modern marvel. It is so far beyond the W124 chassis it's not even a fair comparison. Spend some time in one, you'll be seduced. I was.

Regards,
Jim
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2014, 10:16 PM
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I was going to mention the 70mpg we got in our 2006 CDI but thought better of it seeing we have sold the car.
Attached Thumbnails
shocked a guy with true 240 fuel economy-smart1.jpg  
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2014, 10:26 PM
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My 220D gets 30 miles to the gallon pretty consistently...no more, no less. I'd expect a 240 with the manual transmission to have similar fuel consumption.
  #35  
Old 07-09-2014, 10:29 PM
is thinning the herd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFreeh View Post
If you'd take 15 seconds to read my cousin's post about verifying the mileage reported by the trip computer INDEPENDENTLY of the display it would improve the accuracy/credibility of your posts.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa..... Whoa.

You two are brothers, haven't you heard?
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  #36  
Old 07-09-2014, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Nothing ironic or striking there. The poster was making a claim that was not true. Simple....he got called on it.
You flamed him because you didn't believe that anyone could get better mileage than your family's 220D automatic. Yeah, that's cool.

BTW, do the math... let's say that a manual has a 10% advantage over an automatic and that a 5-speed has a 10% advantage over a 4-speed.

28 MPG + 2.8 MPG = 30.8 MPG.

30.8 MPG + 3.1 MPG = 33.9 MPG.

Huh. Kinda looks like 34 MPG.

Add to that that he does almost all of his driving at 50 MPH, and his claim is extremely realistic.
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Last edited by Mölyapina; 07-10-2014 at 10:22 AM.
  #37  
Old 07-09-2014, 11:31 PM
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My neighbor was the opposite, he thought my 300D was only getting 15 mpg. He's probably used to 8 and 12 on his Denali so 15 was "high enough"

And he also asked if it had a carburetor.

He was shocked too when I said 25, was a diesel and it was fuel injected
  #38  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimFreeh View Post
This will be my last post on this subject.

I hope you enjoy your W124, I'm sure you think very highly of the car. They are nice cars, I still own two of them.
You realize, of course, the number you cited above from wike is for a constant 53.8 mph? Do you really drive like that in the real world?

I really don't care to try to defend my observations to you. It's not important to me, and I've already told you what I have observed. For me, it is a game to see how high I can get the mpg number, and I am constantly aware of what the car is achieving at any given time (thanks to that wonderful computer that you hate). I'm not into hypermiling, just comfortable travel. My wife drove 50% of the outbound AND return trip, and she is not one to be concerned with overall mileage. The fact that the CDI can generate these MPG numbers without even trying hard is quite impressive. I'm not going to quibble over a slight variance with calculated vs computer, I only reported my observations of the computer.

My numbers have been reproduced by others, they are not at all out of line with what I can reproduce on the car at any time. It is what it is. You may choose not believe it, as others no doubt question your observations on your own car. I'm not the unaware typical owner. I'm an engineer trained to look at facts without emotional bias, and I've been wrenching on cars for over 40 years.

You paint with a broad brush the inaccuracies of the computers. Have you ever driven a W211 CDI for any distance? I've put 14K miles on mine so far, and I know for a fact that the computer is very consistent and close to my calculated mpg. As I said, close enough that I stopped trying to log every fillup. I have 8 cars/trucks, I don't have the time or inclination to go bat-sh** anal on each one. I can reproduce these numbers, and so can my cousin. That's a cumlative 64K on CDIs. I'm happy with my mpg, and I was very pleasantly surprised to see an observed high mileage number based upon a 500 mile trip at relatively high speed with aircon running the entire trip.

I sure didn't expect to get accused as a charlatan when I posted the results. Looking at your postings, you appear to revel in taking an antagonistic approach to any idea you do not personally subscribe to. If, indeed, you can get your claimed mileage out of a W124 300D, imagine how much more you would get from a W211 CDI. Why I bet you could outdo my results, easily. Why don't you drive one and find out firsthand what amazing cars these are? Given some time to understand how these cars work, I'm sure you could do much better than my cousin and I can achieve. My car didn't deliver these mpg results when I bought it, I've spent some time tweaking it to max out the numbers, so I don't expect every CDI to achieve the same mpg. Remember, your mileage may vary....

The W211 CDI is a modern marvel. It is so far beyond the W124 chassis it's not even a fair comparison. Spend some time in one, you'll be seduced. I was.

Regards,
Jim
Jim,

Thanks for the extensive clarification across the board in your CCed post here.

I too can coincide with almost everything you've written, and, I happen to own an 06 CDI sedan.

My last post here will be this one too. I already gave the guy more time than I should have, but enjoyed bringing to light his behavior/MO on DD, et al - as I am reading coincides to some degree with your observation.

Thanks again for your thoughts on it.
  #39  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
You flamed him because you didn't believe that anyone could get better mileage than your family's 220D automatic. Yeah, that's cool.

BTW, do the math... let's say that a manual has a 10% advantage over an automatic and that a 5-speed has a 10% advantage over a 4-speed.

28 MPG + 2.8 MPG = 30.8 MPG.

30.8 MPG + 3.1 MPG = 33.9 MPG.

Huh. Kinda looks like 34 MPG.

Add to that that he does almost all of his driving at 50 MPH, and his claim is extremely realistic.
Sounds like typical SRJ professional troll behavior. He will poo poo anyone that disagrees with him no matter how much evidence you have to the contrary. Good thing #38 was his "last post here". I guess he ran out of good things to say.
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:40 AM
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I read more posts on here as a guest than I post so I don't post here often.. Looks like someone got a little mad and is playing a victim threatening to leave the forum! We'll see you again SRJ!

Till next time!
  #41  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Sounds like typical SRJ professional troll behavior. He will poo poo anyone that disagrees with him no matter how much evidence you have to the contrary. Good thing #38 was his "last post here". I guess he ran out of good things to say.
Let's hope... although it is entertaining to see him struggle to assimilate new information.

Learning new ideas and concepts has always been a personal goal of mine, but it is clear that some feel the opposite.
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2014, 07:22 AM
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I had a 240D manual. Worst one tank mpg was 17. Best was 28. Typical was 22 or 23. My 300D always got better, even when it was still an automatic. I've just touched 30 on long highway trips, but right around 25 is what I get on most tanks.

For a time I drove a '90 International Paystar 5000 with a 14 liter Cummins making all of 350 horsepower and pulling a 32 cubic meter end dump. I never hit the scales with it (no scale houses in the country I was in), but I estimated the loaded weight to be about 130,000 lbs, with an unloaded weight more like 34,000. Upon further reflection I think both of those estimates are low. I checked the mileage a couple times and found I was getting 3 mpg loaded and 6 unloaded.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
For a time I drove a '90 International Paystar 5000 with a 14 liter Cummins making all of 350 horsepower and pulling a 32 cubic meter end dump. I never hit the scales with it (no scale houses in the country I was in), but I estimated the loaded weight to be about 130,000 lbs, with an unloaded weight more like 34,000. Upon further reflection I think both of those estimates are low. I checked the mileage a couple times and found I was getting 3 mpg loaded and 6 unloaded.
My brother has a Ford Econoline E350 12 passenger van.

He's often asked what the mileage is.

His answer is whatever it may be, once you divide it by the number of passengers, it great mileage! Same with your tractor, great mileage, by the ton.

He's a former MB owner, had to give it up with 7 kids. But he still likes to tell people when they ask him what he drives, that he drives an E350. If they draw the wrong conclusion, hey, that's not his fault....

Jim
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:52 PM
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After reading 2 pages of banter about MPG on cars other than a 240D, can we get back to JB3's topic?
This is my real world experience with 240D MPG. I have owned several 240D's, and have checked the MPG often. I also have been running them on WVO blend, and everyone knows that lower MPG for WVO than with pump Diesel is common. The times I have checked the mileage, I have filled up in the same spot on my driveway, filled to the same level in the tank (gurgling at the top of filler neck), and calculating the actual miles driven. I have a 20 gallon portable container with one gallon graduations on the side. My real world experience with the manual 240D's run on WVO blend that I have taken the time to calculate the MPG on has been thus: worst MPG-20, best MPG-32 (long freeway cruise on one full tank), average MPG-24. I am sure those numbers would increase if I was running pump Diesel, but by how much, I don't know. I also "drive it like I stole it" most of the time. As they say "your mileage may vary"......Rich
  #45  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
wait... doesn't the 2.2 190 manual get 100mpg?
Mines an auto, cuts about 60-65mpg off....

Transmission is always glowing red its so inefficient....

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