Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-17-2014, 05:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
Bought 2001 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with 617 Diesel Transplant. Hot start issue, please help

Well I did it. I bought a 2001 Dodge Dakota extended cab with a 617 turbo diesel. Here's the risky part, it wouldn't start when I bought it. PO said the injection pump was out and that was it. Included in the price was a working used one. The conversion looked like it was quite well done so it didn't take me long to buy and have it on a tow truck.

Got to my mechanics shop and the new IP was put in, nothing... Ugh the new (used) pump was a dud. I bought a rebuilt one and we got it in yesterday and the truck came to life! Engine sounds great when it runs. Was blowing heck of a smoke though, I'm sure that will go away it had been sitting for months.

Now the problem. Once it get's warm it doesn't want to start again. And when it's running it gets too hot and shuts off. We figured out the electric fan (no mechanical one there) wasn't working. So I have ordered a thermostat wiring control for the fan. We did jump it but still couldn't get the engine running again until long time and it was cool

I'm going to replace the glow plug controller with the updated one as there was something wrong with the old one and we had the jump the plugs too. Anyone have any ideas on why the engine runs great but won't start when really hot?

I'm going to replace all the rubber fuel lines next in case there is air leaking in when warm... Thanks for any help! The truck is at my mechanics shop, when it's fixed I'll get pics taken and upload!
__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-17-2014, 06:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,154
So:
It starts easy when cold.
It runs fine.
It will not restart when hot.

The next time it will not start when hot: cool down the IP by pouring a bucket of water over it.

Report back if that makes it start or not.
__________________
Greg
2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
2007 ML 320 CDI
2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
2006 Sprinter 432k
2005 E320 CDI
1998 SLK230 (teal)
1998 SLK230 (silver)
1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO

2007 ML320 CDI .. / 2005 E320 CDI .../ 1998 SLK 230 .../ 1991 Daihatsu Rocky
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:01 PM
Stevo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NW WA
Posts: 6,285
Hows that TD working out. I remember a few years ago you got the driveshaft rebalanced and all was well. What kind of millage did you wind up getting? As I remember I get around 34 on road trips with my 5 speed TD. Good luck with the PU, I like those Dakotas.
__________________

1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-17-2014, 10:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
I was with the mechanic while we were getting the Dakota started for the first time. It was being a PITA to get the fuel from the tank, we jumped the in tank pump that was original on the dakota. We're not sure if that should run, we think that since we got all the system bled the Mercededs fuel pump could handle from there on.

Ok will try the cold buck of water IP trick and let you know. I won't be back to his shop until Monday to try it.

Oh the wagon has been great! I hit 34mpg on the freeway once. Love driving it now...so awesome having that 5 speed!
__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-18-2014, 12:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
I've been reading a lot and I think we are having fuel/air leak problems. I ordered all new hoses to replace fuel/injector lines.

I am wondering more if the tank might have junk in it, we weren't getting good fuel flow until we turned on the in tank pump. I don't think we need to run that pump though, but it wasn't moving at all until we power it up for a minute and shut it off.
__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-18-2014, 12:35 PM
JB3 JB3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 6,724
drop the tank and get rid of that pump. the best thing you can do is exactly duplicate the benz fuel system, no restrictions, nothing that could impact diagnosis for engine issues.

there have been numerous examples of people trying to work around and around an in tank fuel pump they just dont want to remove, and ultimately it was some characteristic of that pump that caused all their problems. i say run the motor off a pop bottle in the engine compartment, if it works, get rid of that fuel pump.

i have personally seen an example where an in tank pump was connected to the return line at the top of the tank with a poppet valve for some gasoline reason. what would happen was the lift pump on the diesel could pull this poppet valve open and draw air. result was at half a tank the vehicle would run out of fuel, as the return line was much higher.

sounds like a cool truck, post some pics!
i wonder how the 617 does moving that size truck and 4x4 system around, should be fun on the first test drive
__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-18-2014, 02:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
drop the tank and get rid of that pump. the best thing you can do is exactly duplicate the benz fuel system, no restrictions, nothing that could impact diagnosis for engine issues.

there have been numerous examples of people trying to work around and around an in tank fuel pump they just dont want to remove, and ultimately it was some characteristic of that pump that caused all their problems. i say run the motor off a pop bottle in the engine compartment, if it works, get rid of that fuel pump.

i have personally seen an example where an in tank pump was connected to the return line at the top of the tank with a poppet valve for some gasoline reason. what would happen was the lift pump on the diesel could pull this poppet valve open and draw air. result was at half a tank the vehicle would run out of fuel, as the return line was much higher.

sounds like a cool truck, post some pics!
i wonder how the 617 does moving that size truck and 4x4 system around, should be fun on the first test drive

Thanks for the response JB3! I was just going to post because my mechanic called me and said he'd been thinking about it. He really thinks we need to change the fuel outlet from the tank getting rid of the in tank pump just as you said. The dakota tank has an outlet at the top that the pump draws it in through vs MB tank where outlet is at bottom and gravity flows the fuel through. I think we'll drop the tank and put a new outlet on. My hourly bill must be rising thankfully he's quite a nice guy and really wants to see this thing run.
__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-18-2014, 10:36 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregMN View Post
So:
It starts easy when cold.
It runs fine.
It will not restart when hot.

The next time it will not start when hot: cool down the IP by pouring a bucket of water over it.

Report back if that makes it start or not.
Pouring Hot water on a cold IP or cool/cold water on a hot IP is not a good idea. The tolerances in the pump are very close, and a sudden temp change could cause a problem.

Edit:
"As per post #9, and reading the link, Iam all wet in what I wrote here. I guess I should say pouring hot or cold water on the IP will greatly improve it`s performance."

We are packing for a move, so I can`t quote the source I read it from, my manuals are packed away until we unpack in Oct/Nov.

Charlie
__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ilys/boobs.gif


Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Last edited by charmalu; 07-20-2014 at 05:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2014, 11:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
Pouring Hot water on a cold IP or cool/cold water on a hot IP is not a good idea. The tolerances in the pump are very close, and a sudden temp change could cause a problem.

We are packing for a move, so I can`t quote the source I read it from, my manuals are packed away until we unpack in Oct/Nov.

Charlie
MB 2.2 will not re-start when warm - Forums

Read post #4 - #6 in the above linked thread.
__________________
Greg
2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
2007 ML 320 CDI
2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
2006 Sprinter 432k
2005 E320 CDI
1998 SLK230 (teal)
1998 SLK230 (silver)
1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO

2007 ML320 CDI .. / 2005 E320 CDI .../ 1998 SLK 230 .../ 1991 Daihatsu Rocky
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-19-2014, 04:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
Well I think my IP is OK because I spent a lot of $ on a professionally rebuilt one. I believe my issues now are because the PO was using the stock dakota tank setup.

I've been reading about a lot of air getting into the fuel that causes power loss and such. I want to make the tank draw fuel from the bottom and not the top like it does now. Anyone have ideas about how to alter the dakota tank to do so? I am trying to find a bolt on fuel tank outlet I can put on there.
__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-19-2014, 05:01 PM
junqueyardjim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cicero, Hamilton County, Indiana about 30 miles north of downtown Indianapolis
Posts: 2,609
I'll second that move! Get rid of that fuel tank/ fuel pump and go gravity. Nothing better, nothing more simple.
__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-19-2014, 07:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Why don't you try and run the engine using the soda bottle? It's easy to do and is almost free. If it runs on the bottle, perhaps your issue is the fuel tank. It could also be a clogged fuel cap or tank vent causing a vapor lock. Start with the simple cheap fixes unless you know the parts are defective. If the truck will not start or run on the soda bottle, it's probably related to the filter/ fuel pump/ hose clamp or air leak. Good Luck
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-19-2014, 08:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyboysomers View Post
Why don't you try and run the engine using the soda bottle? It's easy to do and is almost free. If it runs on the bottle, perhaps your issue is the fuel tank. It could also be a clogged fuel cap or tank vent causing a vapor lock. Start with the simple cheap fixes unless you know the parts are defective. If the truck will not start or run on the soda bottle, it's probably related to the filter/ fuel pump/ hose clamp or air leak. Good Luck
Yes that is the plan, I'll do the soda bottle trick first. I have done this for lubri moly treatments before. I am guessing I have an issue with the tank though, I want to start looking/ordering parts now because it's still taking up space at my mechanics shop.
__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MinneSnowTa
Posts: 132
Finally Pics and a vid in this post. I have Good and Bad news... Good news is truck is running! I think we were dealing with fuel/air leaks (maybe a pocket in that new IP too). You can see a video of the truck running here:

2001 Dodge Dakota with Mercedes 617 Turbo Diesel First Run - YouTube

Bad news is I took out for an extended drive today and there clearly are some issues. First thing you'll notice is a lot of smoke. I am thinking this is because it sat for 2 months...? After driving a bit it cleared up some, but is WAY more smoky than my 300TD (which barely smokes at all). Any ideas how to clear up smoke? Or just drive a tank through it maybe?

The big bad news is lack of power. On the freeway it did 55 mph and didn't want to do more. I am thinking this has to do with lack of fuel. I know what a 617 can do and it just seemed like something is wrong, not that I was maxing the engine.

I brought the truck back to the mechanic. Our plan is for him to take out the in tank Dakota pump (not being used now) and install an inline fuel pump with metal hose drawing up from the bottom of the tank. This should ensure there is no fuel starvation, the idea is from others who have converted Dakotas.

Any other ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
Bought 2001 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with 617 Diesel Transplant. Hot start issue, please help-img_1607.jpg   Bought 2001 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with 617 Diesel Transplant. Hot start issue, please help-img_1610.jpg   Bought 2001 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with 617 Diesel Transplant. Hot start issue, please help-img_1612.jpg   Bought 2001 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with 617 Diesel Transplant. Hot start issue, please help-img_1614.jpg   Bought 2001 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with 617 Diesel Transplant. Hot start issue, please help-img_1616.jpg  

__________________
1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:25 PM
is thinning the herd
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,272
Do you know how it is adapted to the 42/44/46RE whatever is in there, and how the electronic transmission is controlling the trans without having any input from the engine?

Though it looks like it may be a stick.

I've got a Dakota and a spare 617. I've had some thoughts...
__________________
68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 87 200TD - 87 300D - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500 - 06 E320CDI

Nissan GTR - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser Diesel - Cadillac Eldorado
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page