Do I buy a w210 Wagon Gas 2 Diesel Swap? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

wagonrider · #1 07-23-2014, 03:26 AM

Hello, I'm new to the thread so please forgive any awkward or naive questions, but I have located a 1999 E320 wagon that has had a Diesel engine swapped into the former gas based body.

Now I am normally VERY hesitant to consider purchasing any modified vehicles, but my desire for a w210 Diesel wagon is getting the best of me.

What I would like to know, is what should I be looking for and what questions should i have answered before I can reasonably consider this a decent car?

I have sent the seller - possibly an auto repair shop - a list of the following questions, and he has anwered (BOLD)

> Is it a clean title? It is Titled already in our state.
> Can I see the title? NA
> Is it still a SALVAGED title? It is a salvaged title.
> Is it Titled? Yes
> Can I re-smog/re-title it again without much problem? NA
> How about getting it insured? It is insured now.
> Who did the conversion? I will meet the mechanic when i go see the car.
> Is it an engine swap only, or a transmission and running gear swap as well? - NA
> Can you describe what parts/gear had to swap/adapted? NA
> What year is the engine? ?, but is was rebuilt 3000 miles ago.
> What model # is the engine? NA
> How many miles on Diesel engine? 3K after rebuild.
> Did u change the wire harness, computer system or AC - does it work properly? All electrics have been changed to allow smooth running.
> Any issues with the Auto transmission? NA
> Any issues with ABS? NA
> Are there pneumatic shocks or air suspension? NA

My question to this forum - and thank you in advance - is what other questions should I be asking? And what should I look for when I go to view the car? I am trying to decide between this car and a 2010 Jetta Sportwagon TDI. I love the size of the Merc and it's efficiency. But do not want to purchase a potential sink-hole. Thanks for your input.

Carlos -

Mxfrank · #2 07-23-2014, 07:09 AM

You'd better start asking 210 wagon specific questions....is there rust? The wagons are prone to rust around the door frames and tailgate. Also check the front spring perches. Does the A/C system work? Radio? Self leveling system? Steering rack leaking? Is this a 4matic (most wagons were), and how is that working?

There was never a 210 Diesel imported to the US, so anything you find will only be as good as the mechanic who did the swap. I'd want to drive it to make sure the transmission has reasonable shift points.

dieselbenz1 · #3 07-23-2014, 07:48 AM

I can understand your dilemma and your desire for more interior space. Who will be servicing your car in future, will this be your daily driver are you good electrically to solve any issues as some wiring harnesses would have been changed?

Mölyapina · #4 07-23-2014, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

There was never a 210 Diesel imported to the US, so anything you find will only be as good as the mechanic who did the swap. I'd want to drive it to make sure the transmission has reasonable shift points.

Yes there was. E300 Diesel. OM606 NA through '97, Turbo after that.

pawoSD · #5 07-23-2014, 08:18 AM

Getting a blown 2002 W210 gasser wagon and dieseling it with a 603 or 606 would be very tempting....I've thought about this before.

However, the M112 gasser in the 320's is arguably as reliable or MORE reliable than a 603 diesel....and much more powerful.....so blown ones are not the common. All the M112's in my family have been 100% problem free. Its an incredible engine other than the fuel usage....

My brother's 2002 E320 has 153k and counting and 0 problems. Engine has never had ANYTHING done to it other than 1 set of spark plugs, belt, and oil changes.....still runs perfect, gets 31mpg highway, uses less than 1 quart of oil between 7,500 mile change intervals.

GregMN · #6 07-23-2014, 08:50 AM

Just my opinion...

If you, or you and a couple of friends, could replicate the swap your selves, then you could consider it.

If you would have to pay a mechanic to do all the service/repair work on it, then you should not consider it. One trip to the mechanic could wipe out several years worth of fuel savings over the gas engine model.

tjts1 · #7 07-23-2014, 10:05 AM

Is that the one that's been on craigslist for over a year for $15,000? I would look at the wiring harness first and foremost. Find out how badly they hacked it together. Honestly, you're probably better off with the M112 V6 that came standard in that car. Its more powerful, far more reliable and efficient than the inline 6 gasoline engines that preceded it. Whatever the fuel economy, that car is not worth the asking price.

Mölyapina · #8 07-23-2014, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Is that the one that's been on craigslist for over a year for $15,000? I would look at the wiring harness first and foremost. Find out how badly they hacked it together. Honestly, you're probably better off with the M112 V6 that came standard in that car. Its more powerful, far more reliable and efficient than the inline 6 gasoline engines that preceded it. Whatever the fuel economy, that car is not worth the asking price.

Do you have a link to that ad? It would be interesting to see, whether or not it is the one the OP is looking at.

Mxfrank · #9 07-23-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Yes there was. E300 Diesel. OM606 NA through '97, Turbo after that.

Sorry, I meant to say that there never was a 210 WAGON imported to the US. I bought one of these new, and was disappointed at the time that a Diesel wasn't available. FWIW, the gas 210 wagon is capable of 26mpg if you don't push it hard. Give the price of Diesel the increment in mileage isn't worth a premium price, especially since this is probably someone's headache.

tjts1 · #10 07-23-2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Do you have a link to that ad? It would be interesting to see, whether or not it is the one the OP is looking at.

The ad has been taken down. Its been posted several times here in the Craigslist thread. Its mix of E320 wagon salvage body, and E300 turbodiesel salvage running gear. If i remember correctly the dealer claims to have the title for both cars but its registered as a diesel so no smog check in CA. I really doubt it has an inspection sticker from the referee station, a big no no if a cop ever notices the plates from a 4 door on a wagon. Worse yet would be a parking ticket where the license plate and vin don't match.

The OP says he's in SoCal so very likely it is the same one.

Mxfrank · #11 07-23-2014, 11:52 AM

As I say, a lot of money for someone else's headache.

tjts1 · #12 07-23-2014, 11:56 AM

Found it.

https://ventura.craigslist.org/cto/4566458622.html

Looks like they got the paperwork sorted finally.

mach4 · #13 07-23-2014, 01:03 PM

It's nice, but not for the price. I'm not totally convinced that the vehicle would be exempt from smog. 1999 was the cutoff, so it could still be within the scope. My 1999 Powerstroke needs smog inspection. It's just a visual and an ODB check, but as has been pointed out getting the wiring correct in such a swap could be a bear. Too much stuff integrated and too many points of failure with probably no documentation.

If there were a build thread for the project documenting everything that happened, how they solved the myriad problems and allowing someone to replicate the project, it might be worth it.

They also show the odometer reading but no reference to the engine mileage.

jay_bob · #14 07-23-2014, 01:17 PM

Agreed on the systems integration. This has been a fantasy of mine as well but trying to get the systems married has to be a nightmare.

Now if M-B was smart and the table of CAN bus messages for the parameters was compatible between the gas ECU and the Diesel ECU you might be able to make it happen.

Just a small example: glow plug light

On the 124 the glow plug light goes directly from the relay to the dashboard. (Except for the connector in between.) The relay puts voltage on the light wire and the bulb turns on.

On the 210 there is a CAN bus connection in the glow plug relay. The relay puts a message on the CAN bus to turn the light on and off. This gets put on the power train CAN bus. The message travels through the EIS (ignition switch, this is the gateway between the power train and the body CAN buses) and onto the body bus. The console receives the CAN bus message and operates the bulb.

mach4 · #15 07-23-2014, 01:57 PM

The hot setup for a swap of this type would be to use a 1998 210 Wagon and swap in a turbo 606 engine with a 603 IP mated to a 5 speed manual gear box. This would get you away from any potential smog issues (at least in CA), and allow you to eliminate the ECU and much of the troublesome CAN bus integration. You'd eliminate the electronically controlled transmission and the electronically controlled IP. You could run manual shutoff and glow systems. You would need to get a ALDA replacement from Europe to take advantage of the extra fuelling for the turbo boost - it's been done just can't find the link right now.

Probably wouldn't cost a whole lot more than the unknown project in the ad.