Lamp Defective Message. I want to scream and scream and scream and then scream again - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

EDBSO · #16 08-01-2014, 02:54 PM

Thank You Skid Row Joe

PROGRESS!!!

I thought I would refresh the common ground connections. As soon as I touched the one on the right hand side of the car almost under the air filter it sheared or simple detached from the body due to rust. This likely caused a poor ground connection. Took it apart, polished the grounding spades with 2,000 sand paper and treated them with DetoxIT D5, drilled a hole beside where it rusted off and used a stainless steel screw and put it back together.

I refreshed the common grounds on the driver's side near the shock tower and in the trunk under the light on the driver's side. All were fine but I refreshed them with DetoxIT D5 and 2,000 sand paper.

Now when I start the car the Lamp Defective warning does not come on. I can go through the turn signals, brakes and back up and the Defective Lamp is not set so YES PROGRESS.

BUT within a minute of driving off it will set. No brakes are being used, no turn signals and certainly not shifting into reverse. Nothing is changed by me still the computer (Hal) thinks that there is a Lamp Defective and I get the Lamp Defective warning. Sometimes upon pressing the R it will stay off for a long time others it will reset to Lamp Defective immediately and 7 or 8 times in a row, YET when I get out of the car all lights are working and lit. The repeated hitting of the R is done without braking or using turn signals.

I am thinking there is a vibration that causes a light to go out for a nano second. I have HID headlights and know little about them but upon reflection they are not on when the Lamp Defective is set so they should be out of the equation.

Am I correct in that this narrows the problem down to the License plate (2) lamps, the front amber corner markers, the front H6W and the two on each side running lights? All of which are on and tapping around and on them does not set the Lamp Defective

Progress but still very frustrating! Hope that some of this helps others.

PS way in the back of my mind I recall something about brake switches causing problems?????

dieseldiehard · #17 08-02-2014, 12:32 AM

I want to know about Brake switches being involved with this problem, if you find that info please post it.

OK, I have some feedback on the intermittent, random brake light issue described in this thread. Granted there are other things being sensed by the Defective Lamp sensor circuit and possible other factors involved.

My wife drives the '99 E300D turbo most of the time over the past year since I bought it from another Forum member. Its been extremely reliable and a very lovely car so I find myself wanting one but I use a wagon most of the time to haul stuff around and the sedan won't do that so until I convert a W124 chassis to a OM606 engine I wil have to be happy with what I've got
So, the first several months she drove it, my wife would run in and tell me the lamp warning popped up. Honestly I admire her constant attention to the issue but it was becoming annoying.
I checked fuses and bulbs including using an Ohmmeter and I replaced the tail light bulbs. Despite what some believe, if you get an aftermarket bulb of the right type it will not burn the taillight lens or housing. There has been a long standing recommendation by some to only use MB lamps because the base is made of nickel (or plated brass) not bare brass and maybe there is some truth to that because bare brass can become corroded with moisture and I've seen that happen but as far as this lamp sensor problem I won't take sides on what lamp to use but I'll use whatever is on hand and most lamps I buy are Osram (Sylvania).

OK, on the issue at hand. Each time I went out and switched the ign sw on it was fine. No Pop Up
But then I drove the car a few times and noticed the lamp popped up it often after going over a bump in the road and always when braking.
I called a friend who is employed as a mechanic and he said there was a defect in the taillight assy on the circuit board where the lamps fit into a plastic holder, something about a bad design and he suggested I speak with the parts counter at the dealer so I did.
I dropped in to see the fellow I know at Autobahn Motors and was informed that he was aware of this being a widespread issue and that MB had changed the tail light assy in the W210 cars but before I could find out the cost for one of these (heck I already knew it would be over a hundred bucks) I received a fone call or something and had to leave.
I was eager to go and have a look at this and I did and saw there is a what looks like tin plating over some metal where the lamp holders are inserted and rotated until in the locked position. There was some erosion on the metal where the lamps contact rubs on the metal substrate and I can see where there could be a problem but it clearly wasn't what I would deem a "bad connection". The fact it happens on a good sized bump in the road may show there is a broken filament in one of the lamps or the lamp holder is momentarily losing good connection, its hard to really diagnose this without some special equipment that would take a half a day to set up.

I ran some crocus cloth (ultra fine grit) over the area where the lamp holder fits, I don't think it removed much metal (plating?) but that reduced the number of pop-ups as they are called around here, but not completely eliminated them. I still get some and only when braking so its definitely associated with a brake lamp. Its the last little gremlin in the car and I too wish it would go away but I'm not into spending $300+ to find out if new tail lights will solve it. Because I just spent more than that for new headlight assys, with Xenon lamps. That I consider more important because I need to see the road at night!

There is possibly a bulletin on this from MB but of course it wasn't made a recall or we would probably have all known about this problem by now.
DDH

97 SL320 · #18 08-02-2014, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBSO

I am close to replacing all bulbs again with matching pairs.

Matching pairs isn't the issue, the bulbs must be the proper wattage otherwise the current sensor thinks there is a bad bulb.

Small single filament bulbs come in many wattages and the old standby 1157 now comes in higher wattages too. I've seen many Euro / Japanese cars that post the wattage on the housing to assure the proper ones are used.

funola · #19 08-02-2014, 10:00 AM

If it were my car I would not replace all the bulbs (especially not with rip off Mercedes bulbs), which probably would not fix the problem, which most likely is due to bad connections or bad wiring.

I would:

-remove all bulbs
-remove the fuse that powers the bulbs and put an ammeter in its place
-put the bulbs in one at a time to get an amperage measurement and check it against the bulb's spec current draw. P=E*I where P is watts, E is volts, I is amps
-fix whatever is the cause of the low amperage draw on the bulb(s) and that will probably fix the lamp defective warning.

Skid Row Joe · #20 08-02-2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

I want to know about Brake switches being involved with this problem, if you find that info please post it.

The brake pedal switch on this model W210, I am thinking may be the cause of intermittent ASR / BAS illuminating on my Brother's E300.

EDBSO:
Thank you for the input on the ground points you inspected/renewed on this model!

EDBSO · #21 08-03-2014, 12:07 AM

For the second day when I start the car the Lamp Defective warning does not come on, progress, real progress. I am 90% certain it was the common ground front right almost under the air filter housing that was causing that problem.

The Lamp Defective warning randomly comes on after a couple of minutes of driving. I feel it is mostly as a result I feel of vibration.

Still suspicious of the passenger's cornering light. I had been tapping the orange reflector and banging on the fender without result. I then took the bulb out of the housing and was able to regularly trip the Lamp Defective by directly tapping on the bulb with my fingernail when it was on. Fiddling with the bulb I just wasn't happy with how it was seating into the base. Purchased a couple of 186 bulbs and a new bulb base. I soldered the new base in with silver solder taped it up, stood back to admire my work and crushed the bulb. What next?? Fortunately I had a spare.

As it is easy and prudent I also checked the driver's side and what a mess. The reflector connector for the bulb was torn off and plastic pieces were missing, the bulb was rattling around in the fixture open to the elements. The base was dirty and a bit corroded. It did clean up and held the bulb firmly. Patched up the back of the reflector with 5 minute epoxy. Used paper towel soaked in epoxy to seal where plastic pieces were missing. Top coated it all with a couple of more layers of 5 minute epoxy, let it cure a bit and back together.

I go through a lot of H6W bulbs, they run over $10 each here and I replaced the two just because.

I am 33 minutes Lamp Defective free "whale-oil-beef-hooked" have I solved it, multiple failures solved? Time will tell.

jay_bob · #22 08-03-2014, 08:26 AM

I had one of those double ended bulbs in the dome light intermittently failing. Of course this does not trip the lamp failure monitor but it is annoying nonetheless.

Discovered that one end of the bulb had a cold solder joint.

pawoSD · #23 08-03-2014, 02:44 PM

My bro had a bad brake light switch that I replaced on his W210....it only ever triggered the ASR/BAS warning though, never a bulb warning....replaced it with an MB original switch about 4-5 months ago and 0 errors since....its the only "repair" the car has needed in 15 months and 23,000 miles of ownership so far!

dieseldiehard · #24 08-29-2015, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

(cut)
OK, I have some feedback on the intermittent, random brake light issue described in this thread. Granted there are other things being sensed by the Defective Lamp sensor circuit and possible other factors involved.

OK, on the issue at hand. Each time I went out and switched the ign sw on it was fine. No Pop Up
But then I drove the car a few times and noticed the lamp popped up it often after going over a bump in the road and always when braking.
I called a friend who is employed as a mechanic and he said there was a defect in the taillight assy on the circuit board where the lamps fit into a plastic holder, something about a bad design and he suggested I speak with the parts counter at the dealer so I did.
I dropped in to see the fellow I know at Autobahn Motors and was informed that he was aware of this being a widespread issue and that MB had changed the tail light assy in the W210 cars but before I could find out the cost for one of these (heck I already knew it would be over a hundred bucks) I received a fone call or something and had to leave.
I was eager to go and have a look at this and I did and saw there is a what looks like tin plating over some metal where the lamp holders are inserted and rotated until in the locked position. There was some erosion on the metal where the lamps contact rubs on the metal substrate and I can see where there could be a problem but it clearly wasn't what I would deem a "bad connection". The fact it happens on a good sized bump in the road may show there is a broken filament in one of the lamps or the lamp holder is momentarily losing good connection, its hard to really diagnose this without some special equipment that would take a half a day to set up.

I ran some crocus cloth (ultra fine grit) over the area where the lamp holder fits, I don't think it removed much metal (plating?) but that reduced the number of pop-ups as they are called around here, but not completely eliminated them. I still get some and only when braking so its definitely associated with a brake lamp. Its the last little gremlin in the car and I too wish it would go away but I'm not into spending $300+ to find out if new tail lights will solve it. Because I just spent more than that for new headlight assys, with Xenon lamps. That I consider more important because I need to see the road at night!

There is possibly a bulletin on this from MB but of course it wasn't made a recall or we would probably have all known about this problem by now.
DDH

Now that you hopefully read my first post (above) this applies to my '99 E30D - W210 chassis.
I am happy to inform everyone of my progress made. I understand now the cause of this issue.

The fact is Mercedes has a poor design here, perhaps I should describe it as a time bomb but that's a bad description what with all the terrorist actions these days

Mercedes really blew it when they selected steel for the lens circuit assy, and dissimilar metals action ultimately take effect and prevent a good low resistance contact.
The circuit board on the rear tail light lens assy is made of steel plated with what appears to be galvanizing. The bulb holder contacts are folded brass and are plated with either silver or nickel.
The pressure of the point on the bulb holder against the plated circuit (substrate) with current flowing through it eats away at the galvanizing (tin if I'm not mistaken) and after thermal expansions and time it finally makes contact with the steel, a very poor conductor of electricity and also being open to corrosion form the environment the steel oxidizes, making a high contact resistance and that in itself causes even more heating - a self-feeding action that ultimately interrupts the flow of current to the bulb and the Lamp Out sensor activates a warning on the dash.
The type of bulb or whether it has a brass base or nickel base makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE as those do not factor in the issue I am describing here!
My initial effort to remove the corrosion with crocus cloth was unsuccessful on the Left side of the '99 E300D so I bought a replacement lens assy (210-820-33-64) to the tune of nearly $200 after tax. That fixed the problem and I hoped the Right side would hold up. Well, a year later the Right side started causing intermittent Lamp Out warnings.
Knowing the cause I decided to try repairing it this time.
I removed the lens assy and observed a small crater where the bulb holder contact ate away the metal. It was like a small cone with a dark center. I took a Dremel tool and with a small grinding tip I ground away all the plating around the carbon left in the center of the "crater". The depth of the crater was amazing!
I scratched the galvanizing layer around the crater for a short distance and warmed up my 175 Watt soldering iron. Using a 2% silver/lead solder I applied liquid flux then I applied heat quickly and made a little solder bump where the crater used to be.
I still had the old lens assy from the L side so I used it as the test bed and after seeing how easy it was I did the same repair to the R side lens, on it I wound up with a little too much solder but I was able to file it down until it was a little higher than the metal circuit board.
For anyone thinking they want to do this repair I caution them not to attempt it using a small soldering iron or even a soldering gun because there isn't enough latent heat in those tools to heat the metal in a hurry, you have to realize the metal is sitting on plastic all the way around and if you get the metal too hot it will melt the base support. The 175W iron was perhaps a little overkill, a 100W iron may have done as well but with the 175W iron it took me only about 10 seconds to get the solder to adhere and back off.
I hope my photos are useful, I tried to put pointers on them using Photoshop but the program and I didn't get along very well, I was lucky to get the pics cropped to what I have here.
I will report back if the R side repair fails for some reason but looking at the way the bulb holder contact digs into the solder bump I don't see how it can fail.

DDH

VW1300 · #25 08-29-2015, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay_bob

Yup that one got me too. It checks *every* bulb on the exterior of the car.

The worst are the little H6 "city" lights in the smaller "eyes" in the front of the car. Those are hard to find except at the dealer and they are like $15 each.

Just had to do mine - didn't see them on peach parts but they are available at another popular internet source. My wiring insulation was flaking off so I bought another set of the sockets as well. Now I need to find replacement wiring for the main headlights, that insulation is falling off too.