240D engine noise- engine coming out but any ideas? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

junqueyardjim · #16 08-29-2014, 03:55 PM

Hey, you have the tired old 240D out, the 4 speed in but it has to go back 4 inches and you will have to shorten those shift rod 4", but it is not much of a hassle. The 617 probably weighs 50 lbs more plus the weight of the turbo. Motor mounts are the same, go to the same place. Use the big radiator and install the coolant recovery on the right inside fender. It will be the same as mine, 617 with the 240D flywheel. Buzzes a little under high load and low rpm. Keep your shift points a little higher and you will love it. Recommend you get a differential and a matching speedo from some source that will run faster then the 240D. Differential from an 85 300D is ideal. Have fun, work carefully!

leathermang · #17 08-29-2014, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim

....... Buzzes a little under high load and low rpm.

Buzzes like a Bee.... vibrates? ... what does that mean ?

Do you attribute that to using the 240 flywheel instead of a 300 flywheel ?

Skippy · #18 08-29-2014, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Buzzes like a Bee.... vibrates? ... what does that mean ?

Yes, both. Mine does the same thing.

Quote:

Do you attribute that to using the 240 flywheel instead of a 300 flywheel ?

Yes.

Dan Stokes · #19 08-29-2014, 06:00 PM

I know we're a little distance from you but you might try "Cape Fear Pick and Pull" - they often have a turbo 617. Their stock is on line so you can take a look there. If you find something specific I can go take a look for you though they aren't in running condition. I got mine by buying the whole car ($900), pulling the engine and trans and anything else I thought I could use and scrapping the car. I got $200 for the carcass and sold the trans to a friend so all together the deal cost me like $400 or $500- not bad. It also allowed me to actually drive it so I knew a bit about the engine and trans.

Dan

cooljjay · #20 08-30-2014, 03:54 AM

Don't forget it also is wise to upgrade the front springs to them from a 300d turbo....for the extra weight the turbo has....

Personally....I would get a friend who is a little bit more mechanically inclined....I wouldn't be pulling anything from that car, until I had everything on hand and/or figured out what happened to the 240D engine.....I have a strange feeling this friend knows notta about mercedes diesels and this swap will be screwed up and we will see it posted at an ridiculous price on ebay/CL...

Stretch · #21 08-30-2014, 04:41 AM

If you want to find out what was causing the knock I'd just take it to bits - if an engine is knocking that badly it will be easy to find.

If I were you I'd thank your friend for getting on with the job - I see little point in playing about with the old engine if you are not going to use it any more.

leathermang · #22 08-30-2014, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

........Personally....I would get a friend who is a little bit more mechanically inclined....I wouldn't be pulling anything from that car, until I had everything on hand and/or figured out what happened to the 240D engine.....I have a strange feeling this friend knows notta about mercedes diesels and this swap will be screwed up and we will see it posted at an ridiculous price on ebay/CL...

Unfortunately I suspect that is right on the money.

leathermang · #23 08-30-2014, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

....... I see little point in playing about with the old engine if you are not going to use it any more.

To give one time to read about the problems some have had with the turbo manual swap...... where they almost never really figure out what caused that vibration ( for sure )..... and never get it fixed if they have it.... some claim to have had no problems.... but being human beings who probably had to justify going ahead against others advice.. might not admit their mistake...
Some may have been lucky and it actually worked right.. but they had no way to share that with the vibrators to help them fix the situation.
And to consider if one would want to do that much work and then have an UnMercedes kind of vibration ....

charmalu · #24 08-30-2014, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

There are a lot of threads on people who tried this in the archives...

Then there are some of us that didn`t try, but did it.

Charlie

leathermang · #25 08-30-2014, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Then there are some of us that didn`t try, but did it.

Charlie

"There are a lot of threads by people who did this in the archives..."
Is that what I should have said ? Still awkward sentence structure...but does that overcome your objection ?

charmalu · #26 08-30-2014, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

Don't forget it also is wise to upgrade the front springs to them from a 300d turbo....for the extra weight the turbo has....

Personally....I would get a friend who is a little bit more mechanically inclined....I wouldn't be pulling anything from that car, until I had everything on hand and/or figured out what happened to the 240D engine.....I have a strange feeling this friend knows notta about mercedes diesels and this swap will be screwed up and we will see it posted at an ridiculous price on ebay/CL...

It isn`t all that difficult to do the swap, it`s mostly swapping parts and bolting things together. The difficult part is between the ears. LOL

I swapped in a 4-spd from a 82 240D into our 85 300D.
The 4-spd manual weighs less that the automatic transmission it replaced, so the front end of the vehicle will rise up because of the stiffer 300D springs.

I swapped in a set of 240D front springs and it lowered the vehicle back down to a good looking ride height. Rides good and looks good. However it is a bit soft when driving on a mountain road, not too bad, or dangerous but is noticeable.

Do some searching on swapping in a front sway/torsion bar from a 300TD.
I had read this on various threads. Found a wagon in PNP and pulled the bar. stripped it down, gave it a shot of POR, bought the wagon (not the sedan) front bar bushings. there is a difference as the wagon bar is 2mm thicker than the sedan bar.

Read this thread, scroll down to see some pictures Winmut posted.
Big front sway bar

I have the bar in but have not driven the car yet. The engine is out as I found a 300D 617 FW. Just don`t have the eng/trans back in yet, but did rebuild most of the front end while things are out of the engine bay.

Since I have the 85 300D, Iam using the 2:88 Differential. I don`t know if I would call it buzzing, but as I remember 1st through 3rd it runs very well. drop the RPM`s below...say 2800, and she acts like the engine is being lugged. drop into 3rd and she smooths out. AS I remember, you can run it up to 50mph in 3rd gear, maybe a bit more. been a while since I drove her.

The 240D Flywheel weight is 28 lbs and the 300D 617 FW weighs 38 lbs.
The 617 FW will smooth out the Buzzing or vibrations as I have read, but is very difficult to locate.

If you are on flat land the 2:88 is good, but try to start on a steep hill, will be a bit more difficult. a 3:07 Diff from a 82 - 84 300D/300SD might work better.

As mentioned, use the speedo from what ever cars Differential you want to use, the spedo is geared to the Differential.......not the Transmission.

Remember to measure twice, and cut once.

Use the Drive Line front section from the 240D and have it shortened and welded back up. Not all DL shops can do MB DL`s. find one that will.

Use the 240D or a 280E automatic trans cross mount. It uses the next set of holes back, and uses 4 bolts compared to the one for the 240D with the manual Trans which is a skinny narrow one and uses one bolt on each side.

2 of the shift rods will be cut to a different length than the reverse one as I remember.
Measure twice, and cut once.

Depending on which 4-spd transmission is used, the older Iron Box with the remove able bell housing or the all one piece aluminum box as used in the 82 and 83, the shift rods will be measured and cut to different lengths.
the lengths of the boxes are the same length, the shift rods are the difference they way they connect to the boxes.

Charlie

leathermang · #27 08-30-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

The 240D Flywheel weight is 28 lbs and the 300D 617 FW weighs 38 lbs.
The 617 FW will smooth out the Buzzing or vibrations as I have read, but is very difficult to locate......

This seems like a good time to mention another factor ....

When one is replacing a flywheel on these cars... the FSM says to balance the new one TO THE OLD ONE....

leading me and some others to speculate that originally from the factory these engines were DYNAMICALLY balanced ....

Meaning that there are more positions than ONE in which it can be bolted to the block...... So even if you have a 300 flywheel... you can , since you do not have the original on it... to match the balance TO..... you may have a vibration which should not be there...

BUT the good news is that ( with a huge amount of trial and error labor ) ... taking the trans off and trying other positions of the flywheel on the engine ) the situation may be curable .....

charmalu · #28 08-30-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

"There are a lot of threads by people who did this in the archives..."
Is that what I should have said ? Still awkward sentence structure...but does that overcome your objection ?

Wasn`t an objection Greg, when you mention some people tried, that could be read as it didn`t work for them or they gave up etc.....

I was just saying some of us didn`t just try to do the swap, work, project what ever you, us, them, the committee of they, want to call it and we continued on and finished the project.

I have read different threads where the poster said if MB wanted a Turbo Engine with a Manual Trans they would have put one in at the factory. There must be a reason they didn`t do it.

I betcha there are a lot of people that read this forum that do some of these projects that do not sign up and or post what their accomplishment was for fear of being critiqued. Shame.

Charlie

charmalu · #29 08-30-2014, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

This seems like a good time to mention another factor ....

When one is replacing a flywheel on these cars... the FSM says to balance the new one TO THE OLD ONE....

leading me and some others to speculate that originally from the factory these engines were DYNAMICALLY balanced ....

Meaning that there are more positions than ONE in which it can be bolted to the block...... So even if you have a 300 flywheel... you can , since you do not have the original on it... to match the balance TO..... you may have a vibration which should not be there...

BUT the good news is that ( with a huge amount of trial and error labor ) ... taking the trans off and trying other positions of the flywheel on the engine ) the situation may be curable .....

I did match balance the 617 FW to the one that was on the engine. I marked the crank and original FW before removing it. The 617 FW was marked, and I lined it up to the mark on the Crank.

The 617 FW was originally mounted to a NA 617 engine. Mine came off a 81 300D I found in PNP for $27.

You are correct, there is 12 ways to mount the FW to the Crank. It is just a matter of removing the DL, Transmission, Clutch assy and FW 12 different times. OH and the cost of the 12 new FW Bolts, X 12 if you want new one`s each time it is R&R`d.

Charlie

leathermang · #30 08-30-2014, 04:22 PM

For others reading this description of flywheel changing...

What Charlie described is not what it shows in the FSM...

It shows the mandrel for balancing them in relation to each other... like one would balance a mower blade one had just sharpened .. except in the horizontal plane.

It is always possible for someone to get lucky on these things...
but people should consult the FSM to give them a better chance of having a satisfactory outcome...

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