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  #1  
Old 10-13-2014, 07:26 PM
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Time for a new engine in my beloved E300TD

Looking for a shoulder to cry on as my 99 E300 TD with 197,000 miles just got towed to an independent Mercedes mechanic with engine missing on #2 cylinder, smoking like crazy and making a clanking metallic sound. I've run it for 135,000 --6 years--on WVO with a 2 tank Golden Fuel system with a Devil's Own water injection system. It has fuel spray out when the lines are cracked but the engine makes no change in rough idle when cracking number two fuel line, so it evidently has lost compression in that cylinder. Mechanic said it may be cheaper to just do an engine swap with a low miler than to do a cylinder head job...I've priced some online today and prices for a 60,000 mile engine are running $2800 -$3300 shipped. Can you really be sure of mileage when purchasing an engine online? His fee for installation is $1500 approximately.
Any thoughts...or sympathy?
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1999 E300 TD
1999 E300 TD, WVO conversion
2007 Jaguar XJ8
1993 190E 2.3, Limited Edition, 239,000 miles (sold)
1991 300 SL (sold)
1977 MGB
1969 TR6
1980 TR8
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2014, 07:48 PM
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Ouch that hurts! Are you sure you don't want to try removing the head yourself or at least having it confirmed its a head or otherwise?
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2014, 08:43 AM
jay_bob's Avatar
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Contact the guy in this thread.

I just got a box full of bits off this car.

Need Parts?: Parting out 1998 e300.....Ohio
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1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2014, 09:00 AM
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You certainly have my sympathy. Out of curiosity, does your mechanic think there's a connection between the WVO system and the failure, that the problem wouldn't have occurred were it not for the WVO system?
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2014, 10:27 AM
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I would make sure the rings aren't stuck from the WVO. There's a procedure with some sort of elixir that frees them up and restores compression.
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2014, 10:28 AM
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a good starting point

have you swapped #2 injector w/another to see if the problem stays w/#2 or follows the injector?

have some new heatshields & some return line on hand if you investigate

could be due for a cleaning + new nozzles

good luck
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shertex View Post
You certainly have my sympathy. Out of curiosity, does your mechanic think there's a connection between the WVO system and the failure, that the problem wouldn't have occurred were it not for the WVO system?
If you ask me the answer is no. If you ask the pureist, the answer is YES. The truth is no, otherwise there will be no junk cars with damaged engines in the yard.

Wish you were nearer. I would have bought it and rehab the engine if you decide to sell.
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Last edited by ah-kay; 10-14-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2014, 08:48 PM
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If it's just one cylinder with gummed rings you should be okay. I would first check though with a compression tester first to be sure.

If they are stuck switch to diesel and use car under load (steep hill) with water injection on.

Before you attempt any of the above check the oil for polymerisation, this is when you get wvo bypass into the sump oil.

Good luck
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1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2014, 12:05 AM
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Thanks guys.
Dieselbenz1: Yes, I'm curious as to what happened internally. Mechanic says it is dumping raw fuel out of the tailpipe, making a bad metallic clanging noise, and smoking. It has had a blow by problem also and a few years ago the number one glow plug got stuck and was drilled out and helicoiled. So he is thinking it has bad rings and needs a new cylinder head and the cost may approach that of the engine replacement.
Shertex: That was the first question I asked. But he was careful not to say. Ah-kay hit the nail on the head. My mechanic is a purist. All cars are mechanical and prone at some point to fail and until the head is off and carefully examined determining that veg is what killed this engine may be hard to prove.
Quahog: I bought the 22mm injector tool off Ebay and removed all the injectors, took them to a Bosch Diesel Injector shop, had them pop tested to 140 bar (approximately 2000 psi) and they all tested good! The shop owner commented that this was the first one of this type he'd seen in his shop--not that common I guess, but surprisingly he could service them if they had needed it--We both were impressed that these 15 year old injectors with 197,000 miles of which 135,000 was on WVO were good. Which really makes me agree with Ah-Kay that veg oil is not the issue here.
spock505: It is a two tank system..I'm always switching back and forth to diesel..it made no difference in clearing up--just more clanking noise and more smoke. I've had the engine oil tested at Blackstone Labs before--not sure they checked for that, but that would be good to know if veg oil is in the oil sump.
I'm going to buy the engine, let the indie install it, keep the old engine, and in my spare time take it apart and inspect the damage. I'm expecting the cost to be about $5000 to include all the hoses and engine mounts and new glow plugs and be set for at least another 6 years with this low mile engine. I'll have to hook up the veg oil system myself as I'm certain the mechanic won't do that part.
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1999 E300 TD
1999 E300 TD, WVO conversion
2007 Jaguar XJ8
1993 190E 2.3, Limited Edition, 239,000 miles (sold)
1991 300 SL (sold)
1977 MGB
1969 TR6
1980 TR8
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2014, 10:57 AM
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Raw fuel out the tail pipe as in liquid amounts? That would sound like an injector or injection pump failure to me....has the pump and injector been pulled and tested?

Also...keep in mind no matter what prep is done to run WVO, they weren't intended to from the factory, so in the long-term use of it, something could possibly go wrong as a result. 197k miles is unusually low for failure of an OM606....they tend to go a long long time....often further than even the 616 and 617's do.
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'89 420SEL 166k - mine (OC-167,000)
'01 E320 - 171k - dad's (OC-171,500)
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2014, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybenz View Post
Thanks guys.

spock505: It is a two tank system..I'm always switching back and forth to diesel..it made no difference in clearing up--just more clanking noise and more smoke. I've had the engine oil tested at Blackstone Labs before--not sure they checked for that, but that would be good to know if veg oil is in the oil sump. .
Have a quick check for sludge deposits or increased levels on the dip stick. Don't like the sound of metallic noises though, could be anything, broken glow plug/valve dropped in.

They are more prone to ring gumming due to the turbo, this blows hot air/veg oil against the bores or can do under certain circumstances.

In the UK we had loads scrapped for this, water injection does help though.

Keep us posted if you pull the engine to bits.
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1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2015, 01:26 AM
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Update

Hard to believe I posted this 12 months ago and I just now have an update. I pulled the cylinder head to find a bent valve and scoring on all cylinders. I then pulled the engine...not an easy task as there are so many things to disconnect. It has been at the machine shop for 4 months (shop owner had neck surgery). He gave me a price of $4800 to rebuild the old girl...new pistons and aftermarket sleeves as this engine is not sleeved from the factory, new water pump, new timing chain..cams were fine just need polishing, springs were fine, will replace only the valves that are not in spec, work on the crankshaft for balance. His assessment of the veg oil causing the scoring can't be confirmed, but he did say it was pretty messed up compared to diesel only cars. Can't really say what caused the bent valve and guide either.
He didn't see any coking (thanks to the water injection perhaps). He also thinks I may not have needed the water system in the first place.
He says my best and cheapest bet is to buy a used engine and install it, but the used ones I've seen online have 150,000 -180,000 miles, so I don't think that is an improvement over an engine with 197,000. I kind of like the idea of having a Zero mile engine after the rebuild. My concerns are that I may not get it to crank after it is back in the car. The machine shop is well respected in my city and he is confident he can rebuild it to original German quality the day it left the factory. He is concerned that other things may keep it from running like the injector pump, etc. Although it was running fine before the valve issue.
Any thoughts on rebuilding an OM606?
Thanks,
John
Attached Thumbnails
Time for a new engine in my beloved E300TD-valve2.jpg   Time for a new engine in my beloved E300TD-valve1.jpg  
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1999 E300 TD
1999 E300 TD, WVO conversion
2007 Jaguar XJ8
1993 190E 2.3, Limited Edition, 239,000 miles (sold)
1991 300 SL (sold)
1977 MGB
1969 TR6
1980 TR8
joturbe@comcast.net
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2015, 01:45 AM
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I rebuilt a OM605 non turbo which is not too dissimilar.

My guess is something has dropped in the bore bending the valve, could be a piece of piston ring or glow plug tip. Doesn't take much as the clearance between head and TDC is minimal.

Unless you have really bad scoring consider honing the bores, this was the advice i received at the time which worked out well.

Have a look here to see if this thread is of any help.

OM605/6 piston advice
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1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)
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  #14  
Old 10-08-2015, 04:56 AM
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The scoring is telling. Clearly the problem was not isolated to one bore. So either it lost oil pressure at some stage of its life (I think you would have simply lost compression or started burning oil in that event) or something about wvo fried or stuck the rings. I have seen an om617 at the shop being rebuilt after being run on wvo. All varnished up on the inside. I think the problem has to do with all sorts of other organic stuff in the fuel which accumulates over time. And a general lack of quality control on the fuel between sources making it hard to compare impact on motor life. I think you did the right thing rebuilding it. I would have done the same as the cost is maybe 3k more to have a totally fresh motor vs unknown quantity. Maybe put some forged rods in while it's apart ;-)

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  #15  
Old 10-08-2015, 09:49 AM
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Almost $5000 and still not sure of the IP status when you are done.

This is what I would do, not necessarily what you should do.
I would look for a good running rusty or damaged donor car. The rust belt is just a couple of states north of you.
Drive it home. Part it out. Might end up costing less then 1/2 of your rebuild and you will know the status of the engine and IP before you do the transplant.

I would not be worried so much about the miles, but about the condition of the engine. Make sure it has never been run on alt. fuels and has had it's oil changes on time. My DD had 172k on it when I bought it. It now has 347k after 173k on VO.
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2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
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2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
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1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO

2007 ML320 CDI .. / 2005 E320 CDI .../ 1998 SLK 230 .../ 1991 Daihatsu Rocky
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