Radiator flush after flush... the rusty water never stops - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diesel911 · #31 11-05-2014, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr

Engineer here. This is indeed true. I'd like to add pure water is indeed less corrosive than water with impurities; however the effect is still measurable and it can actually attack nearly anything; especially at high temps and pressures. I like to think of it as having an abrasive force rather than an corrosive force, causing the water to retain impurities as a result of this. So using distilled water has no major advantage.

I have zero issues using Tap Water. But, if the Distilled Water is Mixed with Coolant it is no longer Distilled Water so it should not have the same properties as pure Distilled Water.

As a side note. I have a 1 Gallon Electric Water Distiller and have been drining moslty Distilled Water since the 1980s. So if I wanted to use Distilled Water to mix with the Coolant it would be even less of an expense for me then someone buying it Retail. I have no plans to use it in anything but the Car Battery if needed.

vstech · #32 11-05-2014, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I have zero issues using Tap Water. But, if the Distilled Water is Mixed with Coolant it is no longer Distilled Water so it should not have the same properties as pure Distilled Water.

As a side note. I have a 1 Gallon Electric Water Distiller and have been drining moslty Distilled Water since the 1980s. So if I wanted to use Distilled Water to mix with the Coolant it would be even less of an expense for me then someone buying it Retail. I have no plans to use it in anything but the Car Battery if needed.

hmmm. what's the electricity cost to run the distiller?

Diesel911 · #33 11-06-2014, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

hmmm. what's the electricity cost to run the distiller?

Less then plugging in an Electric Car. Just kidding.

I don't know how to figure it out as I have never checked that Amperage while it is running so that I could calculate how the watts pre time period it uses.

I had one stop working and did not get another for over 3 Months one time and I did not notice any significant difference in My Electric Bill. Also My total Electric bill last Month was $58 and change.

There is also a convience Factor and not have do deal with finding as space for a bunch of Plastic Jugs or one big Bottle some place and there is no Fuel using trips to the Store just to buy Water.

Also My Wife and I put the Distilled Water in our own Bottles when we go some place so we usually don't by the typical Water Bottles that you see People on the Street Drinking From.

Between My Wife and I we drink 1-1.5 Gallons per day of the Distilled water. We Cook with Tap Water.

Back in the 1980s My Mother told Me there is somplace in France where People live a long time and they drink Distilled Water. But, that is not the main reason I switched. The City of Long Beach switched the Chemical they used to Purify the Water back then.
I don't like the Taste of the Tap Water and it give me a bit of gas to the extent I feel a little bloated;makes me burp.

When I drink Tap Water from the City My Mother used to live in it does not taste as bad and I don't have the bloating issue.

In short I think if you look at all of it I think the Cost evens out.

I bought the first Distiller from Sears (made in Japan) and it laste for something like 15 Years. The 2nd one I got from Sears was different and it only lasted a little more than 2 Years.

I had also bought My Mother the origanl one I got from Sears but She did not use it so I got it back and used that for about 10 Years till My Wife burned up the Cord. I repaird it but I bought an additona US made one.

I prefer the US made one as it works faster than the Japan Sears one.

I use Vinger to clean it but Citric Acid is what you are supposed to use.

The pic is not the exact one I have but looks almost the Same. The first one I got from Sears and the US made one look similar.

What burned out on the original one was the Temp Shutoff Sensor. When burned up it turns the Heater Element off permanently.

PackerEdgerton · #34 11-07-2014, 02:16 PM

I agree with the comments that in order to get the maximum amount out of the system, you need to do a back-flush with the garden hose...

Good luck,

Packman

HuskyMan · #35 11-07-2014, 03:04 PM

I experienced the same rusty water problem on the 1984 300DT. First, I installed the Prestone back flush system "T" fitting into the proper heater hose. Then purchased the official Mercedes Benz citric flush. I started early one morning to allow plenty of time. I opened both the block drain and the radiator drain and allowed the coolant to drain then filled with water and the citric flush.

Next, I closed the drains and started the engine and turned the heater on high and ran the engine for approx 10 minutes then drained the radiator and engine block drain plug. I then poured Shout Advanced laundry pre-stain treatment into the system and ran the engine with the heater set to "high". Then I opened both the block drain and the radiator drain and allowed to drain. I did the Shout advanced laundry pre-stain treatment two more times. Then closed the drains and connected a garden hose to the Prestone "T" fitting and turned the garden hose on high. The water did run clear (no rust) but I could still see rust in the hoses leading to the heater core.

I have purchased RMI-25 Cooling System Treatment and plan on using it on the next flush lollapalooza (I'm thinking of hiring dancing girls to entertain me while I perform the coolant flush, you know to keep my mind off the rust).

Amazon.com: RMI-25 Cooling System Treatment Quart: Automotive

In closing, I really like the idea of the radiator shop doing the bubble water treatment and I may pursue that avenue as well because I cannot stand seeing rust in the system.

Shortsguy1 · #36 11-07-2014, 08:02 PM

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and discussions. I just wanted to followup on where things are.

So as mentioned above, I decided to re-do the entire citric acid flush procedure (degrease, citric acid, rinse, repeat as desired). This time, I ran it through the heater core as well. The FSM suggests 10 minutes (I think) for the citric acid, but this time I drove around for about an hour. For some of the rinses, I did a gravity drain. For other rinses, I did a flush via the hose at locations. Each time, I drove the car around without the thermostat for long enough to get it warm for about 20 minutes. I put pieces of a paper bag over the radiator to help the car warm up faster.

As mentioned by others, the hose always does a better job at getting the junk out. I then did a final rinse with distilled water. Please see attached photo for the results, but basically the water is still coming out rusty. So it didn't help in that regard. Oh well.

I filled the system with 35% Zerex G-05 and decided to call it good. I may add one of those filters mentioned previously, but will do that down the road. I think rusty coolant is just going to be part of my future.

But on the bright side, the car runs SOOOO much cooler than before. I can do a long freeway hill climb near my house and the engine reaches 235F. Before it would hit 250F and I would have to pull over. I never had a boil over before, but it is so nice to now be able to do this drive now at vaguely normal speeds (45 mph...hahaha).

As an aside, I did multiple runs on this same hill on similar weather days, and I could not see a measurable difference with pure water vs. 35% coolant. I did my best to normalize my runs, but I guess my point is that the difference in cooling ability is small enough that it is washed out by other differences (wind speed, traffic, air temp, sun intensity, etc.). I was worried that as soon as I went back to some coolant in my system that the car would start hitting 250F again, but that wasn't the case. Yea!!!

So the citric acid flush worked for me (mostly).

leathermang · #37 11-07-2014, 08:12 PM

How did you arrive at 35 percent being ' right ' ?
Did you check with the recommendation in the FSM ?

Junkman · #38 11-07-2014, 09:03 PM

Change it again early and see if it becomes more clear. Also change it to prevent electrolysis and avoid the learning experience of changing the heater core.

vstech · #39 11-07-2014, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

I experienced the same rusty water problem on the 1984 300DT. First, I installed the Prestone back flush system "T" fitting into the proper heater hose. Then purchased the official Mercedes Benz citric flush. I started early one morning to allow plenty of time. I opened both the block drain and the radiator drain and allowed the coolant to drain then filled with water and the citric flush.

Next, I closed the drains and started the engine and turned the hieater on high and ran the engine for approx 10 minutes then drained the radiator and engine block drain plug. I then poured Shout Advanced laundry pre-stain treatment into the system and ran the engine with the heater set to "high". Then I opened both the block drain and the radiator drain and allowed to drain. I did the Shout advanced laundry pre-stain treatment two more times. Then closed the drains and connected a garden hose to the Prestone "T" fitting and turned the garden hose on high. The water did run clear (no rust) but I could still see rust in the hoses leading to the heater core.

I have purchased RMI-25 Cooling System Treatment and plan on using it on the next flush lollapalooza (I'm thinking of hiring dancing girls to entertain me while I perform the coolant flush, you know to keep my mind off the rust).

Amazon.com: RMI-25 Cooling System Treatment Quart: Automotive

In closing, I really like the idea of the radiator shop doing the bubble water treatment and I may pursue that avenue as well because I cannot stand seeing rust in the system.

I REALLY hope you are mistaken with the order you performed the procedure... You are supposed to use the shout after you have drained and rinsed the original coolant out of the system, but BEFORE you use the citric acid...

Shortsguy1 · #40 11-07-2014, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

How did you arrive at 35 percent being ' right ' ?
Did you check with the recommendation in the FSM ?

That is a great question. Because I was never able to get rid of the rust, I have decided that this is going to be an annual event for me. Okay, maybe not the citric acid. But I think flushing the system and replacing the coolant is going to be a regular event. I am pretty good at it right now. ha ha. So basically, I decided that I only really needed the coolant to last 1 year. It was important to me to keep the percentage as low as possible so that I could maximize the heat transfer capabilities of my cooling system. Zerex's lowest recommended recipe is 40%, but they are not assuming annual changes with that number.

The MB FSM for my engine has an option of 35% (3.75L coolant/6.95L water), which provides freeze protection down to -20C (-4F). This is far cooler than it ever gets where I will ever drive this car, so I decided to go with this option. The FSM does suggest you should also be using "anticorrosion oil" in addition to coolant/water, but I decided that modern Zerex G-05 is probably as good as whatever 1960s anticorrosion oil was.

I also spent a bit of time looking into modern anticorrosion packages that I could add to my system, but I really think that would be overkill.

But all of that is prelude to the actual answer to your question. I only had one gallon of G-05 at my house, and then I noticed on the bottle that 1 gallon is 3.78L. And 3.78 L into 10.7L total capacity just happens to be 0.353 or 35%. So it was mostly about convenience.

Shortsguy1 · #41 11-07-2014, 11:40 PM

Leathermang-
I also wanted to let you know that I looked into removing the freeze plugs, but on my block, they look nothing like the freeze plugs that others seem to have. Every port on the side of my block is filled with a threaded plug (17mm hex fitting I believe). None were the plugs which simply push into the block (which is what I read about elsewhere on peachparts). I tried to move one of them with my breaker bar, but wasn't able to do so. Some folks talk about cracking blocks when trying to remove these sorts of plugs, so I decided it was best to move onto other battles. But I wanted to be sure you knew that your suggestions weren't ignored. Maybe someday I will be more brave about cranking hard on those threaded plugs, but I am not there yet.

leathermang · #42 11-08-2014, 10:18 AM

That is interesting... It would be bad to crack a block just taking a threaded ' bolt ' out of it... and I would like to see that in person given the strength of these cast iron diesel blocks...
But let me suggest some routes IF someone wanted to take out stuck threaded plugs....AND were worried about cracking the block doing it.
One logical and low tech method is to find some caps off of something... metal would work for sure..but plastic might... just larger than what it takes to fit over the block plug...
Clean the area around the plug... really well... like one were cleaning for installing a gasket.... alcohol , acetone, etc... until your paper towel comes up clean when wiping the area...
Then use Red high temp gasket and seal RTV to glue that cap to the block around the plug... leaving a small opening at the top to fill in the ' container' with PB Blaster type of
penetrant . If you make your own the best and cheapest formula is half auto trans fluid and half lacquer thinner.
So you fill that up and leave it as long as you can. Days, weeks, whatever .... depending on how worried you are about cracking the block..
So at the end of the soaking period.... you try the wrench or socket again... if socket...only 6 point... no 12 point...
If still stuck to the point you are worried about cracking the block... You can clean the area again... and try heating just the plug.. this expands the plug.... or old bolt.... often enough to crush the offending corrosion.... or rust.... then let cool.... and try with wrench again.... or soak again with penetrant.... just spraying penetrant on a horizontal bolt seldom works.... no ' incentive' to go into the stuck threads.... whereas the cup method you have hydraulic pressure... very little.... but enough with some time to work to free many stuck things...
If those things do not work.... then one can go to the left hand drill fix... center punch the offending bolt.... then drill with larger and larger drill bits... near the end be sure to use LEFT handed bits.... Once you get near the threads from the inside the pressure is often released enough for the bolt to come out... If you mess up or it does not come out without going into the threads... then you tap the hole to a larger thread size to fill it after you have done what you need to do in the cavity.... of course... you would put antisieze compound on the threads as you put it back....
There is not usually enough room to work in an engine compartment with drills for that procedure... but if you have it out on a stand.. pretty easy....
For the record.... most ' freeze plug holes' are not made to protect the engine from breaking from freezing... but are really part of the mold or casting process for the iron at the foundry... so it does not mean if one has threaded and relatively small holes instead of large round pop out plugs that it was designed poorly ...only that they did not need those openings for the method of casting used on that block...

note...I indented for paragraphs... but the software justified to the left.... interesting..

HuskyMan · #43 11-08-2014, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I REALLY hope you are mistaken with the order you performed the procedure... You are supposed to use the shout after you have drained and rinsed the original coolant out of the system, but BEFORE you use the citric acid...

thank you; now that you mention it I did perform the flush in the order you mention. it has been awhile since I did the procedure and my memory isn't quite what it used to be.

That said, I'm hoping this new product (the RMI-25 cooling system treatment) will clean out the rest of the rust. Then, I am considering the Evans waterless coolant because I'm tired of seeing rust.

Diesel911 · #44 11-09-2014, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

hmmm. what's the electricity cost to run the distiller?

I found a place that has the specs on the Water distiller.

750 Watts is also what I rememberd. One distiller takes 4 Hours to do 4 liters and the other takes less then 3.5.
With that you can determine the Watt Hours and I think your Electricity Bill may be in Kilowatts so you would need to convert Watt Hours into Kilowatts.
So if it runs 4 Hous that is a total of 3000 Watt Hours.

(Electric Space Heaters set on High are rated at 1500 Watts.)

Distiller specs
Power Input：: 110VAC 60Hz
Output Power : 750W
Volume : 4L
Distilled Water/per: 1L/H
Distilled Internal :All Stainless Steel
Over-temperature safety: power-off when temperature is 160 deg.C
Net weight : 4.5Kg
Package size:285*255*455mm
High Quality, Easy to operation
Produces water of the safest and cleanest condition

dieselbenz1 · #45 11-09-2014, 02:29 PM

With interest I thought I'd check out some local prices wow what a range starting at 700 with a delux model closer to $3000.