Not sure this is the right place to post this, but maybe there are some members out there that have been through this and have good advice.

A couple of weeks ago I rear-ended a Hyundai at 5-10mph. The Hyundai's 'underbite' slope on the rear bumper caused it to ride up over mine: this took out my grille, aux fan, condenser, radiator, and broke a few blades off the engine fan. The edges of the grille were pushed in a bit in the process, resulting in one radiator core-support (the stamped sheetmetal vertical bracket that supports the radiator; it's spot-welded in two places at the base to the unibody frame) getting cleanly broken off at those bottom two welds and pushed back a little. No visible deformation, even to the bracket - just broken spot-welds.

Now, to a reasonable person, this would not be considered "frame" or "unibody" damage - at least, that's my view. The adjuster even agreed on that point, but said he has to go by "state law," which he says requires this classification. He didn't fill me in on the details of what the resulting "salvage title" classification would lead to, nor did I want to arm-wrestle with him on the silliness of this pronouncement, since I wasn't even sure I was going to pursue the claim (if it would greatly raise my premium, that is). He knew I was merely going through the motions so that the claim could be processed later if I decided to go that route.

A few days later, to tie up loose ends, a home-office adjuster called to verify the assessment that the on-site adjuster had made. They're calling it a "total loss," which isn't a surprise, since all they use for estimating is OEM parts, and I think they stopped adding parts once they got above $7K. But here's the kicker: whether I want to proceed with the claim or not, they are "bound by law" to report their findings to the State (of Hawaii), which will result in my title being 'shredded' and reclassified as "salvage."

This means I can drive the car for the remainder of the current registration period, but then will not be able to do anything to re-register it, until/unless I get one of the handful of State-sanctioned "salvage repair" shops to either agree to simply look at it (and charge me an egregious fee) and sign paperwork saying it's really OK. Much more likely, they will require me to bring the car to them for this 20-minute repair, but insist that they have to put everything together (and charge me...who knows how much?)

I've emailed the adjuster and my agent both to complain about the awkwardness of the position they have put me in, and to ask for a specific "state law" reference that says that if a bracket connected to the unibody frame is bent or even broken off, the vehicle must be declared "salvage" until repaired by an authorized facility. (Wouldn't this apply to, say, exhaust-hanger brackets that are welded to the frame, too, then? Can't bend 'em or you've just totaled your ride?) Anyway, it seems very unlikely to me that such verbiage exists in any legal document. I suspect that this is a matter of a mindless tradition of conservative appraisals, passed on from adjuster to adjuster; I want to see it in writing. I'm sure the local auto industry doesn't complain about this.

Whose got something on this?

Thanks - Dave

__________________
'83 300SD - daily driver
'97 Dodge Cummins
'60 & '64 Minis
...etc...

I believe you need to dig a bit deeper into this - the frame damage for body on frame cars and unibody cars is a bit different. the bit you bent/broke off is not the frame member of the car. Its a radiator support - every manufacturer parts list database tells of what parts are frame members.

I had a discussion with an adjuster once and he told me that seldom to insurance adjusters dig deep as this. You should call up a few body shops and ask whats up with the "repaired certificate" this is usually not a commercial shop "act" but more or less a DOT office department that does that (the same one that manages new VINs when required)

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

I thought that if the Car was considered Totaled you could tell the Insurance Company to keep the Car and they would deduct the scrap Value of the Car from the $7,000 after wich the Car was yours and you would indeed end up with a Title with Salvage on it and have to pay for the Repair (if you did not do it yourself) and inspection. But, you would get what is left of the Money after they deduct the scrap value. At least that is the way it is done in California.

It was a different State but My Stepfather was going to give His Car to Us and not drive any more. 2 Weeks before He was to give it to Us He got in an accident that bent up the Front end of the Car and the Inner Fender Well.

He went through the process as described in the first Paragraph. We got the Car and I had to take it for a Brake and Headlight Inspection. After that I registered it in My Name and it indeed had a salvaged on the title.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

States have different laws. Salvage title means different things in different states. My 85SD has salvage title. Ins co paid me ~$3k and I kept the car. Wife drives daily.

__________________
85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

I agree.
Also I am in a State where no periodic Mechanical Inspections are needed by Law.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I do not see what is the problem. The insurance evaluated the damage and came to the conclusion the repair is more than the value of the car. So they total it. Unless you can prove to them it is not the case then they would repair it. It is not easy. You can buy it back, pennies on the $, and repair it as 'salvage' vehicle. You need to go to a certifed shop to check brakes/lights etc to get a salvaged title. This is the case in CA.

Or you can withdraw the claim and as if nothing had happened. If you claimed insurance to pay for the damage to the car in front then the train had left the station.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

I say fix it or have it fixed at a shop of your choice. Meanwhile assemble the paperwork needed for a state sanctioned place to sign off and drop by at the end of the inspection period to get it done.

Salvage titles on old cars are a joke, it doesnt take much to have one suddenly. One of my vans was totalled out because it had a dent in the door. The insurance adjusted even had the ridiculous notion to ask me "if i felt safe" driving the vehicle.

Only a problem when you go to sell it, and only if you get a concours type nitpicking. Id say theres plenty of realistic enthusiasts who would probably make the call on purchase based on an inspection of the vehicle, not a red mark on the title. Just wait for the right buyer in that case

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

I read it that way the first time as well. That is not what the OP is telling us.

He is saying that even if he does not proceed with a claim with his insurer, the insurer is going to take action to have the title moved to salvage by the state.

Realize this advice comes late, but: the general principle following an accident is: NEVER call your insurer and report unless you are (1) obviously not at fault, or (2) you are absolutely 100 pct certain you will be filing a claim where you are at fault or you are in a no-fault state or province.

Many insurers will record any accident reported as an at-fault claim against your record... even if you decide not to make a claim (I found that out the hard way). In many areas that includes the fact that they may find out if/when police charge you as a result of the collision.

By all means demand they show you the legislation they are citing for their practice. But do not assume that your inquiry will change anything... even if you find they are just blowing smoke on the legal aspect. BTDT with both home and auto insurers. I absolutely hate their collective guts and based on conversations with a lawyer, they are more or less all the same.

__________________


Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Thanks for the various replies. I'm glad I have NOT had the normal quick reply from either my agent or the adjuster, I think meaning that my complaint about this is being given serious consideration.

I don't really care if the title ends up with the Scarlet Letter "S", since I don't have plans to sell it, and yes, I will continue to do all the work that I am permitted to in repairs and upgrades.

This sounds different in California from what people have written, but it's a BIG problem in my case. The "shop" wouldn't just be doing a normal safety-check (as we have to deal with here annually), but rather will be charging big $ to perform these "delicate, pros-only" repairs (in the State's eyes, that's how they're treated.)

Some of these few shops used to 'play ball' (sign off on the paperwork for a few hundred dollars with no inspection) - until they started getting busted for that, some years back. So now, it seems very unlikely that a surviving shop would accept my work, even if they could look at it, which in itself would require me to tow the vehicle to them (before the radiator is in place) so as to inspect two spot-welds.

No, I CAN'T just withdraw the claim, as I explained - the insurance company makes this a one-way street - and the claim for damage to my car is entirely separate from the claim the other party is making. Now that my ins co has rendered their judgement, they are, they say, *required* to inform the State, and next, the DMV *will* shred my title. That means the countdown begins to my next annual registration, at which point I can't drive it anymore, nor can anyone, until the "salvage" title is redesignated as "salvage-repaired" or some such language.
---------------------

__________________
'83 300SD - daily driver
'97 Dodge Cummins
'60 & '64 Minis
...etc...

This is a huge pain in the a$$. Wow.

You cant even drive it to them? It HAS to be towed over there disassembled?

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

I think its inevitable you will get a salvage title because of the cost to repair. But I would try to get a clarification from your motor vehicle dept people.
My BIL has a ML320 that was rear-ended by a Honda, the young man driving it was going too fast to stop when the ML320 stopped properly for a red light, people like my BIL fear these redlight cams and generally stop when they are supposed to, then they pay the penalty when the car behind them has the pedal to the metal.
Anyhow the shop we chose was a good one, it is so-called Diamond certified, I know a fellow W124 owner that had their car painted there and it was a great job so we left it there for the insurance estimate, against where they usually send damaged cars to a body mill in another town (thanks but no thanks!).
The shop removed the rear bumper which was crushed in and obviously took a lot of the impact energy then there was this cross member that held up the spare tire, it had been bent and the spare fell to the ground at the time of the accident. Because of this bend member the estimate was over the value of the car, which is in top shape and has regular maintenance (some by me!) with an eye for fixing anything that needs fixing, ie it was a cherry car then suddenly a total loss and the ins co offered an amount that was determined by a survey of the local used car sales history (I think CL was a major source for that). I got in on the call because I figured the ins co was going to do that, and they made an offer to which I asked to have the buy-back price because I knew it could be repaired for way less than the estimated amount. The car cost my BIL $4100 18 months before this incident. Its a 2000 model.
The ins co offered $5600 replacement value. I don't know but the Bay Area seems to be a hot place for Mercedes. The repair estimate was high because it included a new hatchback (including a lot of labor to R&R a hatchback!) a new bumper and some work to straighten a metal bracket that held the rear bumper out from the frame, it was pushed in about 2in. The frame was not damaged but I am certain the body shop was going to send it out to a frame shop to have the metal straightened and that scared the insurance adjuster. They said something to the effect that if the undercarriage work was not up to high standards it may have to be reworked again and they would have to pay additional fees.

The buy-back price was something like $975 which is what the ins co would get if they salvaged it. So we elected to buy t back and have it repaired at our own expense, I know a good body shop and the owner l had looked at this car during this whole process and said we should buy it back and let him fix it. I bought a new bumper at almost cost from the local dealer and the shop did the paint work for $600.
He had to pay $40 to the State of CA to have a vehicle inspection at the DMV with paperwork for a salvage title and paid another $100 for a light and brake inspection (state law) and now, with only a few dents under the repainted hatchback to show where it was smacked by the Honda, it looks like a new car. And my BIL pocketed a bunch of money after it was all done. True, it now has a salvage title but hey he got to keep it and will run it for along time.
And one less car sent to the Vultures who make their living off salvaging cars. I really didn't want to have to find another used ML-320 (he wants nothing else) because finding a car that has a complete service history is really difficult, dealers eradicate all trace of the PO records. This car had been driven by a man who died and we bought it from his wife, my friend the mechanic had all the service history.
I hope your are able to find an indie and have the lower support rewelded, oh that reminds me - my '87 300D had only one accident, the PO ran into a high curb and bent the lower rad mount and had it repaired. That was a lot less than anything that would trigger a total loss.
I think these days insurance companies tend to use total loss a lot more than they used to as I see lots of cars on CL that state they have a salvage title with owners statements like "all it had was a fender bender", or the car was "broken into by a thief". Oh yeah, that reminds me of a friend who bought a new BMW in about 1980 and about 6 months later it was broken into by a thief who wanted the stereo, they cut the wiring under the dash in the process and damaged the dash itself to the tune of $3000 to repair and the ins co didn't want to fix it, they tried to offer replacement value but she nixed that and got them to have it repaired.
I think a lot of the salvage titles on the roads are because these days good repairs are few and far between, maybe its because the skill level of many repair shops has declined to the routine of just doing a fender here, a bumper there, slap some bondo and shoot it. It takes a sharp mind to reconnect a bundle of wires that was severed by a crack head
Let us know what happens with your car.
DDH

__________________
'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

You make that sound like a bad thing. Just where do you think salvage yards get parts for newer cars?

As for the title issue, most / all states have motor vehicle rules on line, do a search.

For the most part, having comprehensive insurance on a older ( 10 + years ) cars is a losing proposition and not worth having. Repair costs remain the same no matter model year but value of the car drops pushing an otherwise good car towards being totaled.

Also, once an accident is reported to the carrier, it is the same as filing a claim. Confirm with your agent but I have been licensed since 1985 and that is the case in the states that I have done business.

You may be able to negotiate the value upward by showing where you have recent new parts etc. I was getting ready for paint and had a good interior with most of the mechanical work finished and received ~ $3k which I thought was fair. It probably wouldn't sell for more.

__________________
85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

I like that...def true. And not to engage in paranoid conspiracy theories, but the new-car-dealer lobby definitely has a hand in influencing legislation here. As discussed here, it's routine for cars to be relegated to scrap/salvage sales after relatively minor collisions. There's no convincing me that there was such a huge problem with unsafe post-accident Frankencars roaming the highways that such legislation was ever necessary - I mean, after all, if a vehicle that's THAT unsafe was out there, wasn't it supposed to get caught in the annual "safety check" required here? Or just plain pulled over by a cop? The New-Car-Complex's lobby easily kicks the Dusty-Toxic-Body-Shop lobby's a$$... (just kidding...pretty sure there IS no body-shop lobby)

I grew up in Honolulu, and we've seen the number of cars/capita on the road here swell unbelievably. Shippers make money getting them here, dealers make money selling them, servicing them...and the resulting rush-hour and school gridlocks, now that everyone's teenagers simply HAVE to have a car and every kid MUST be personally dropped off and picked up from school...well, suffice it to say we will be very lucky not to bankrupt our state in cost overruns for the massive rail system now underway, sold largely as a means to relieve this gridlock. (Rail is that big thing that's going to make more room on the freeway for me and my cars, right?)

--Dave

__________________
'83 300SD - daily driver
'97 Dodge Cummins
'60 & '64 Minis
...etc...

I hope I'm not reading into this but it seems if he rear ended the other car he was at fault. If the cops were called to the scene of the accident, they most likely issued him a ticket for following too close. Then, most likely the car he hit either filed a claim with their insurance company or they may have chosen to file a claim directly with his insurance company. If the former, their insurer would normally subrogate the claim to his company. Either way, his insurance company was drug into it and by default, him.

One lesson here is to never tailgate another car. Rear end accidents are the most common accidents that happen because people tend to tailgate while yakking on their cell phone. There is a good chance his insurance rates will go up as a result of this and if he rear ends another car within a specified period of time, his insurer may not be too happy with him.

If at all possible, avoid ANY accident by staying off the freakin' phone, do not tailgate, do not speed, keep your car in good mechanical condition and do not drive while sleepy or drunk.