Going to look at an 1987 300D later this week - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

renaissanceman · #31 11-15-2014, 07:13 PM

Going to look on Monday morning. Stay tuned for the report, and I'll take pictures no matter which way the deal goes.

renaissanceman · #32 11-17-2014, 04:13 PM

I went and had a look, so first things first, pictures!

I also filmed the engine at idle for your trained ears. It sounded like a healthy diesel to me, but I have not had very extensive experience with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1d7x1kfFVE&feature=youtu.be

I forgot about (and missed) a meeting, realized halfway into the inspection, so I was a little more rushed than I wanted to be, but I still tried to be as observant as possible, and here are the things I noticed:

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The bad (that I could see):

-The sunroof is sunken on one side (for lack of a better word -- see photos). I'm afraid this will leak in the Oregon rain. The owner said he never heard complaints about a leak, (for the past few years, his son has been drove it a month/year when home from missions work overseas. It was his wife's car before that). Looks like it will leak to me.

- The radio antenna doesn't extend

- I couldn't figure out the climate control system completely, but I could get it to blow heat out of the center vents, as well as the defrost, and turn the fan on and off.

-the headlight is damaged (a hole in it, see photo) and the sidemarker has tape on it. Not sure why.

-It's missing some trim on the bottom of the driver's door

-It actually has 142k miles on it (see photo). The temperature never got above where it was in the photo -- stuck open thermostat, possibly.

-The light next to the brake light that looks like a circle surrounded by 6 lines or dashes flickers on an off. I don't know what this means.

-It has the #14 head.

-It has green coolant in the radiator, but the overflow tanks looks clean. A little bit of thin brown residue on the upper portion of the tank, above the coolant level

-It has a crack on a metal flex fitting on the exhaust manifold (just forward of the foil wrapped pipe that replaced the oxidizer trap), so when started cold it was pretty smoky under the hood. Not as noticeable when warm.

-It had not been driven in 6 months, and hadn't been started in 3 weeks. It was in the upper 30's this morning when I started it, and the engine fired up easily, but ran a little rough for the first 20 seconds or so. It smoked quite a bit during this time.

-After it warmed up (I drove about 2 miles) it still smoked (less, but still noticeable out the tailpipe). The smoke was grey looking, and smelled strongly of diesel smoke (IE it didn't seem to smell of the sweetness of coolant).

-It took 13 seconds to get from 0-60, and I did not hear a lot of turbo whine. It made me think that it may not be seeing as much boost as it should

-It had some type of vibration at speed, not quite sure what it would be though. It reminded me of an off balance tire.

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The good:

-I pulled the oil fill cap and nothing was coming out (no smoke or air = no blowby?)

-The engine shut right off when the key was turned. I forgot to check the door locks/windows

-No rust that I could see, paint is beautiful. A couple minor dents/scratches, but nothing major.

-It felt solid on the road, very quiet inside. No noticeable creaks/bumps/grinding/groaning noises. A little bit of body roll when turning.

-all the vacuum lines looked great, felt solid.

-It was very clean under the hood (slight valve cover gasket leak was all I saw)

-Interior was very good for a 27 year old car. A few cracks here and there, but not bad.

-Transmission seemed to operate properly, running through the gears and downshifting when appropriate. No major flaring, but was not as crisp as the more modern autos I am used to driving.

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I am not quite sure what to think at this point.

The smoking worries me, but at the same time the car has been garaged and not been used with any regularity in years. Would that be something that might pass with some driving and new fuel? Could this possibly indicate head trouble? (NOTE: The pictures above were all taken while it was idling warm, so there is not a ton of smoke, but noticeable in person)

The sunroof also worries me.

Any input would be valued.

treetops · #33 11-17-2014, 06:36 PM

IMO the car looks pretty decent. For your reference, I paid 2500 for my wagon with 196K on it. Rear windows, blower, Viscous fan, 2 glow plugs, rear SLS accumulators, AC....you get the idea...didn't work. I've been able to fix all that except the AC thanks to this forum AND I've learned a ton since February. Still think it was a good deal. I've only had it to my indy 3x for stuff I couldn't do, so it hasn't been a total money pit...yet

Take it to a mechanic or a dealer for a decent PPI and take if from there. It is a 27 year old car at the end of the day. FWIW, the rear of the sunroof on mine doesn't close and no leaks in the rain while driving unless I go thru a car wash...hand wash or self serve car wash till its fixed and Antennae are supposed to be fully up.

HTH

jay_bob · #34 11-17-2014, 07:31 PM

Looks like a fine example.

Running down your punch list
- Sunroof - probably the slide rail is broken, it is fixable, search the forum
- Antenna - does it still have the stock Becker digital radio? If so this is simple troubleshooting. Does the motor whir if you turn the radio on? If so it's a mechanical problem in the antenna box.
- Climate control push the center button (up and down arrow), fan control in Auto, roll the wheel all the way to the detent in the high end. Should blow enough heat to roast you out of the car. Roll the whell all the way to the detent on the low end. Should freeze you. Roll the wheel to slightly above the ambient temperature in the car, the fan should slow down and lukewarm air come out the floor vents. Roll the wheel to slightly below the ambient, cool air out the dash vents. Hit the defrost button, max heat, max fan, to the base of the windshield. If the a/c does not work definitely recharge with R12 per vstech's suggestion especially if you are going to Sacramento aka Hell on Earth.
- Headlight - new "doors" (the plastic surround) are available. The lens itself is glass. Marker light held on with tape because clip inside is broken. Remove air filter box (couple 10 mm nuts, lift up) for much better access.
- Trim - junk yard (check the trunk first), new fasteners still available
- Temperature = definitely stuck t'stat
- Dashboard lights: from the left, high beam, no charge, park brake/low MC fluid, front brake pad wear (there are sacrificial electrodes in the brake pads that ground out when it gets too thin), low oil level (sensor in the crankcase), low coolant level (sensor in the expansion tank), low washer fluid level (sensor in the wash bottle), external lamp failure (it checks every last bulb on the exterior), antilock system issue, SRS system issue (stays on 10 s after startup normally until the ignitor capacitor charges up), blank, glow plug. Most all these warning lights come on for bulb check at half brightness with the key in position II and engine not running (charge and SRS at full brightness). There is also a triangle in the fuel gauge for low fuel indication.
- Fear not the #14 head so long as it has never been overheated. The lack of contamination in the overflow tank is a good sign. You will learn to keep a sharp eye on the temperature gauge as part of your driving workflow.
- Coolant - first thing you should do when you get it home is flush the cooling system and replace with Zerex G05 (available at NAPA) 50/50 distilled water mix.
- Flex fitting - JY or order from dealer. It's amazing what you can still get for this car.
- Rough start, mine does that too even with new glow plugs
- Fuel smell out the tail pipe - probably time for injector rebuild/pop test, look up forum member (and my neighbor) greazzer
- No boost - that is common, the EGR valve dumps goo in the intake. There is a boost sensing switch and pressure tap on the intake manifold. The pressure tap goes to a solenoid valve on the firewall that is actuated by the switch. If boost exceeds safe levels the pressure switch trips the solenoid valve to dump boost. The boost signal goes to the ALDA on top of the injection pump, this gives you more fuel to support the boost and make power. Otherwise you are just packing more air in but not making more power. Probably the switch and or pressure hose are clogged. Or your turbo waste gate is stuck open.
- speed vibration, might well be tire related if it has sat for a long time.

Blowby - that seems promising
Shutoff - on this car, the engine vacuum pump only drives the brake booster, climate control pods, shutoff, and rear head rest dump. The door locks are on an electric pump under the back seat. Speaking of vacuum pump, search for threads, if yours is the older type replace it post haste as a preventative measure. The original ones have open bearings that if they fail deposit the ball bearings into the timing chain. Much mayhem ensues.
- Little bit of body roll, the rear suspension is tired. Major DIY project but doable, search threads. Definitely check also the condition of the front control arms, tie rod ends, ball joints. Push down on fender, listen for squeeek
- Transmission smoothness sounds normal. Remember this 4-speed transmission is vacuum controlled from the engine. Not a computer controlled 7 or 9 speed modern marvel.

In closing, just remember that you will most likely need to invest $3 to 5 thousand more in parts to get everything back up to factory new. Definitely avoid the urge to buy non-MB parts especially on critical items. OK to buy the OE Supplier parts (i.e. Bosch, Lemforder, Hella, Pierburg vac pump, etc).

Good luck, I have just been through this adventure with my 87 wagon, bringing it back from a sad state of neglect into a fine running car.

renaissanceman · #35 11-17-2014, 09:57 PM

It does have the stock radio with what appears to be a tape deck that you stick tapes in on the wider side. Haven't seen that in a long while.

The owner says he thinks he has the trim piece in the basement. Overall it seems to be a very comfortable ride. I have never owned a car that big, which might take a bit of getting used to.

As far as the turbo goes, I have read a little bit about the clogging issues being easy to correct, but not the wastegate. Is that a difficult repair?

jay_bob · #36 11-17-2014, 10:50 PM

Radio: check the ANT switch on the dash, make sure the top half is pushed. Bottom selected = antenna stays down even if the radio is on. Middle = antenna goes up about a foot. Top = all the way up. If it is whirring try grabbing the antenna and pull up. If you get the mast and a short piece of toothed plastic then there is your problem. Lots of threads on these.

The old radio is a classic. It can be rebuilt by Becker in NJ. beckerautosound.com He can refurb it and install an aux jack for plugging in your phone. Don't trash your dash with a radio that looks like a Vegas slot machine!

Trim: I kind of suspected he might have saved the trim piece. That shows he really cared.

Turbo: start with the simple stuff first - boost port and hose stopped up. Remove the hose between the manifold and solenoid, blow it out with brake spray. Unscrew the tap fitting and clean it out. I would tell you what to do with that evil EGR but I think you might have to leave it in due to inspection requirements.

The waste gate is pressure activated and fed right off an adjacent tap in the manifold. Not vacuum controlled like the later 124s. There are some threads on the forum that show how to install a pressure waste gate on a later 124, you can see what is involved in swapping the actuator. It is a round can under the turbo. That is the biggest problem, getting to it.

renaissanceman · #37 11-17-2014, 11:22 PM

Actually, an EGR delete would be one of the first things I would do, if there are no negatives as far as engine health and longevity. It sounds like the EGR only has negative effects.

Old diesels are smog exempt in CA, and there are no inspections whatsoever in my current location.

renaissanceman · #38 11-19-2014, 06:04 PM

I called the owner and told him I would like to purchase the vehicle. Picking it up sometime this week.

LNGfish · #39 11-20-2014, 03:47 PM

I like how the car looks from the rear with the trim on roof. My car is a 82 300SD 5 cylinder and I may have paid lil much for it but it was well maintained and looked sharp and was garaged and was not registered for 10 years since owner was sick. It had some maintenance records.I paid 3.5k but ended up putting some money in suspension, brakes, Ignition Switch and Steering lock. Most work I did myself cept suspension work. I got mine about 7 years ago and it has been dependable but the all reguire odds and ends. Curious what price you negotiated. happy motoring.

renaissanceman · #40 11-20-2014, 03:59 PM

I think I'm just going to pay the asking price of $2750. I was thinking about offering $2500 cash, but I may or may not do that.

renaissanceman · #41 11-22-2014, 04:40 PM

I just picked the car up. I paid the sweet old couple the $2750 they were asking without even trying to negotiate, and I'm really happy with the purchase. It's like riding in an airship compared to my little econobox -- very quiet and smooth. Yet it feels like it will handle really well, not nearly as much body roll as I initially had thought, it just has different steering feel from what I'm used to.

The vibration at speed is totally gone and it tracks straight down the road. It must have been related to sitting for months. The tires probably developed a small temporary flat spot over time from not moving. They are made in china M/S all seasons, not terribly impressive, but they maybe have a couple hundred miles on them and still smell like a tire shop, so I'm not complaining.

My buddy who was following said the smoke cleared up a few miles into the 30 mile ride home, and she now it sits and idles hot (well, 60C since the thermostat seems to be stuck open) without any smoke as far as I can tell. Very smooth and has 1.75 bars of oil pressure at hot idle. A little shake at idle in the cabin, but that should be sorted out with some new engine mounts, I'm thinking.

All the windows, the cruise, mono wiper, and power locks function. Trunk is clean with a (the original?) made in Germany Continental spare. All in all, I feel like I got a steal.

TnBob · #42 11-22-2014, 04:54 PM

From the pics you made an excellent buy. I hope he feels as happy as you do.

Id sure be doing a full bumper to bumper replacement of anything showing any kind of wear.
Your 617 should provide you many years of fun providing you take care.

Again, congrats.

PARSHOOT1 · #43 11-22-2014, 06:48 PM

Look forward to updates. "We" all know what you mean about the "airship", enjoy it.

renaissanceman · #44 12-07-2014, 01:59 AM

I changed the oil in the car today to Delo 5w-40 synthetic. What a PITA with those underbody plastic panels. The drain plug was tight, and was missing the copper washer (Thanks, PO/JiffyLube

). Service slips noted slight oil loss, probably the cause.

She seems to be running quieter with the synthetic in there, but time will tell. I'm going to make a couple highway runs in the coming weeks, so that should get the carbon out a bit (especially when the EGR gets "misplaced").

treetops · #45 12-07-2014, 09:41 AM

Congrats on your purchase. Definitely a fine looking specimen and IMO fairly priced. I've found that a stick of wood, screwdriver, small container(PBlaster can with plastic top on) works well to hold up the front under-panel while I try to get the screws started. Keep an eye out at your local PnPs for a 17-22 head, they do come up here and there. I found a #17, had it cleaned and checked for under $350. IDK if I was lucky or the yard didn't know what they had.