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  #1  
Old 11-12-2014, 03:30 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Rebuilt Gearbox

Hi All,

The power steering gearbox on my '84 300D is leaking. I need to have this car leak free ASAP. The issue I have is that the steering feels tight -- I've driven about 15 W123s and I would say about 12 of those had sloppy steering. I've seen the debate here about why this is and I really don't want to go there.

I have also seen threads about people getting rebuilt steering gearboxes that were sloppy. I'm sure there are a bunch of reasons for this including who rebuilt it and what was done, but my general conclusion has been that the cores the rebuilders have been getting are worn out and that they are simply being resealed.

Anyways, I want to see if anyone knows a rebuilder who can rebuild my unit which I know is not worn out or if there are any other viable options.

I've had the experience of going through more than one rebuilt part on my W123 (the starter was the most recent one), and I don't want to deal with this again. It really sucks to have the experience of paying to fix something and getting something worse than what you started with.

I spoke with C&M this morning and they were quite rude over the phone. I can only imagine what I would have to deal with if I had a warranty issue.

Thanks,

Dkr.

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  #2  
Old 11-12-2014, 03:34 PM
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Location: central Texas
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Why don't you put where you are located in your upper right hand corner of your post..... sometimes that helps on parts or shop recommendations...
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2014, 03:37 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Can you elaborate on the rudeness of C&M?

I've only spoken to them once and it was pleasant.

If I were you I would stay away from rebuilds performed by Atlantic Enterprises. I have a Maval box in my 190E and its good. No issues at all. The box in my 420SEL is Atlantic (I believe) and its crap. :O
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82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
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  #4  
Old 11-12-2014, 03:57 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Quote:
Can you elaborate on the rudeness of C&M?
I mentioned to them I was concerned about the cores and wanted my unit rebuilt. The guy puts the phone down so I can still hear him talking and says "this guy is on the phone and says he has heard this ***** information from Peachparts and Benzworld" and he only wants his box rebuilt." He then goes on to say that nobody on the forums knows anything about the boxes and that they don't want to set a precedent by rebuilding my gearbox and that they wouldn't even do it for Peachparts. He also mentioned he has had problems with moderators on Peachparts and no longer participates in the forums. What I got was that my concerns were invalid and that I was too small potatoes for them to waste their time with on an individual level.

I realize they do a lot of volume but he left me with absolute zero confidence in their customer service.

I'm located in SoCal, but I'll ship the box to the right rebuilder.

Dkr.
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkr View Post
I mentioned to them I was concerned about the cores and wanted my unit rebuilt. The guy puts the phone down so I can still hear him talking and says "this guy is on the phone and says he has heard this ***** information from Peachparts and Benzworld" and he only wants his box rebuilt." He then goes on to say that nobody on the forums knows anything about the boxes and that they don't want to set a precedent by rebuilding my gearbox and that they wouldn't even do it for Peachparts. He also mentioned he has had problems with moderators on Peachparts and no longer participates in the forums. What I got was that my concerns were invalid and that I was too small potatoes for them to waste their time with on an individual level.

I realize they do a lot of volume but he left me with absolute zero confidence in their customer service.

I'm located in SoCal, but I'll ship the box to the right rebuilder.

Dkr.
I spoke with them on the phone a few months ago for at least a good hour and I wasn't even a customer of theirs. Just curious about things. They gave me lots of good information on checking things and testing things out. They definitely know the boxes and their trade.

I can certainly understand your desire to get your specific box rebuilt. C&M specifically does not sell to end users so I can imagine their policy regarding building an end-user's box is about the same.

He is right though, at least partially, there is a good amount of misinformation regarding the boxes on the forums. Especially regarding that adjustment on the top of it. He explained that in detail to me.

I dont understand that part about "and that they wouldn't even do it for Peachparts" can you elaborate?

If it were me I would buy a C&M box or Maval box. C&M was not offered for my W201 so I went with Maval.
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2014, 04:47 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Quote:
I dont understand that part about "and that they wouldn't even do it for Peachparts" can you elaborate?
I'm not sure I understood either. I understand their position about it, it just seems like there is a way to say it with more tact. It also seems more convenient for them to not deal with customers 1 on 1.

If I buy a rebuilt C&M or Maval, how do I know I'm not getting something that was high mileage and worn out and just resealed? That's the general understanding I have from people who have rebuilt units. If I send them mine as the core, then I've lost my good box. If I go find another used one or pull one from a junkyard as a core to send back and put the rebuilt in with sloppy steering, I'm not going to be a happy camper.

Dkr.
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  #7  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:02 PM
Stretch's Avatar
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Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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If you are feeling brave you could do the job yourself =>

What a feeling it will be! A properly adjusted W123 / W116 / W126 power steering box

Alternatively send Martureo a PM - I don't think he'll match a commercial warranty however. Still have a chat with the bloke and see what you think.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #8  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:08 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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I don't need an adjustment. I need my box to stop leaking. My box is adjusted perfectly right now.

As far as the rebuild, this is my daily driver. I want it to be done as soon as possible, otherwise I'm looking at rental cars. I would definitely do it if I had more than a weekend before I needed to use the car again.

Dkr.
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:15 PM
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...like a shield of steel
 
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Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Well it shows what's involved with stripping it down to reseal it too. And when you've done that you need to adjust it. But it isn't an especially suitable job for a weekend if you've got the fear nagging in the back of your mind that it won't get done on time.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:19 PM
ROLLGUY's Avatar
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It may be a lot of work, but how about putting in a good used box and then re-seal your old one and put it back in?
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:20 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Stretch:

Can you tell me the difference between "rebuilding" and "re-sealing"? For your guide, is it a rebuild or a re-seal?

Thanks,

Dkr.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:20 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
It may be a lot of work, but how about putting in a good used box and then re-seal your old one and put it back in?
That's an option on the table... I may end up doing that if I can't find a local rebuilder.

Dkr.
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2014, 05:44 PM
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I have most of the MB FSM paper manuals...and at one time or another have read them....
I would not attempt to rebuild a power steering gear box under any circumstances....
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2014, 06:22 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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i would not either. I saw someones pictorial. I'd rather pay the MB dealer price for one.

So here is a question, just where is yours leaking from? If its the pitman arm seal I believe that can be replaced in situ. I think. Maybe only the lower seal.

C&M has, from everything that I've read, a good reputation for their rebuilds. They claim that they measure all the components and ensure that they are in spec, etc.

I believe matureo's service is strictly a reseal operation. I could be wrong though. He might be a viable option for you.

For me, my boxes have significant amounts of slop.

My definition of slop is the amount of steering wheel movement (input shaft) required BEFORE the output shaft (pitman arm) moves.

On my one 300SD I can move the steering wheel from about 11 o'clock to 1 o'lock before the output shaft starts to move.

As I have observed there are three major companies involved in gearbox rebuilds:

1) C&M
2) Maval
3) Atlantic Enterprises

I have personal experience with Maval. The box in my 190E has not had any problems and the car drives well. It was a pleasant transaction. I bought the box online, gave it to my shop to install and then got the old unit back and mailed it off to get my core deposit back.

Atlantic Enterprises, who was identified by C&M when I told them my shop sourced the box from a place in Florida, I have no had much good luck with. I believe they just re-seal the boxes as you fear. The first one my shop received leaked. The second one had significant slop, the MB dealership said it was bad when I went to have my alignment done and the third one...I still dont quite like but I've already paid for so what can I do really.
__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2014, 06:27 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 5,038
Ah here is the pictorial I found a while back:

http://www.davidpetryk.net/Mercedes/Steering.htm

__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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