steering?
 

I have an 82 300TD. Yesterday, on the highway, I heard a soft thud from under the car...about where a front passengers feet would be. Almost sounded like something had fallen off the bottom of the car. I pulled over, gave a quick look under the car but didn't notice anything strange.

Over the next hour of driving I noticed these things:

-The steering was now pulling towards the right
-Its possible that there was a hum/road noise from the front wheels that I had never noticed before...although I don't know if it's always been there and I was just being hyper alert?
-Once I had to make a quicker movement with the wheel and it felt like the car got away from me for a second
-A few times I heard a clanking noise from the vicinity of the front passenger wheel. Both times it was at slower speeds while making a turn, and may have co-incided with hitting bumps...but not sure

Something obviously happened, but I'm not exactly sure what/where to look? Any thoughts?

Might check to see if your ball joints have collapsed....
or that some bushings have given way.... I am thinking of those on the A arms... at the frame....
crawling under there with a good flashlight might help...
When were your wheel bearings checked last ?

Jack up the front and support on the frame rails, on jack stands. I sometimes use a lattice of short 4"x4" wood, which looks safer to me.

Push & pull all the wheels, looking for any play in the ball joints, strut rods, and steering linkage. Have a helper turn the steering as you look. Should be obvious what broke.

With it up on stands, slip a metal pipe under the tire and pry up to check ball joint play. Or A-arm play I guess, yikes. You can pry other places too, but leverage really helps.

Over the years I've learned to hit everything at once after something goes. That play stresses and weakens other components and it becomes an every weekend project for awhile.

It's not bad to do, impact and ball joint separator help. And a big ****** hammer.

That was something I learned working at a front end shop..... do everything which is not already new .... has the advantage of making a front end alignment possible too.....
and New Springs are easy to do at the time you have everything apart...and if you read the current new spring thread... people are always pleased they ' sprang' for new springs.....LOL

steering?
 

Haha. There's a thread around here of a guy that replaced his front springs only to find out how much to rear were sagging. Looked like an old Impala on hydraulics. Motivated me to do the rear first.

Going off topic again.

If you (op) replaces balljoints or tie rod ends its important to buy quality. You should notice a drastic price spread. The difference being the cheep ones are metal on metal contact, the better have a coating in between (Teflon?)

Looking at grease zerks will give backwards results. The cheap have a grease option, the better usually don't as there isn't metal contact in there and the coating lasts long enough.

That being said, I have done the cheap ones on a 90 4Runner with a 3.0 motor and massive rust. Just a roller. I kept the ball joints greased and had to install zerks on the tie rod ends. I would bury that truck to the hood in river crossings and grease regularly.

Prob not helpful here, but I RTV'd the outside of the hub and made sure the inner seals were good. And kept the backing plate drain holes clean.


What's the test for upper ball joints? I remember lower is prying up on the tire but to check the upper you pry on the control arm (up)? Since it will be resting on the ball?

Does his car have uppers? Lol.

I have found that whoever you buy front suspension parts from it is worth checking under the rubber boots for grease before you fit them.

I even found an almost dry TRW part that I had bought from the MB dealer.

As for the problem =>

First step - weight on ground - grab hold of each wheel and see if you can pull it off the car! Give it a good tug!

sorry for the long delay. only just got to go look over the car with all your ideas today. jacked up the front end and pulled on the wheels a bit. didn't notice anything unusual. am i supposed to pull front to back or side to side?

i wasn't able to try prying the wheel with a long bar because the only place i had to work on the car was a parallel parking spot with not much room in front. i also didn't have a helper to turn the wheel while i looked. tomorrow i'll get both those thigns and find a parking lot where i can spread out.

when i put the car back down i could see that the FR wheel is definitely leaning in at the top.

i guess i'm wondering how many of the possible scenarios could be an easy DIY fix? Normally I'm up for the challenge but right now myself (and the car) are in NYC...and it seems difficult to find space to work on a car...in the winter. from the threads i've been reading it seems like most scenarios might involve specialty tools of one or the other?

in any event, i'll take the car to a parking lot tomorrow and hopefully have more updates...

if you can remove the wheel, inspect the swaybar/bushings & upper control arm.

the swaybar is prone to rust and breakage between the bushings where it connects to the arm.

It can be a challenge to get the ball joints out. Looks like your upper failed. When removing and replacing you can use a pickle fork and pound it in. When reusing they make a balljoints removing tool.

It can be done though. That pickle fork is cheap to buy. Or even rent. Just pound away. The nuts can strip holding the top side. Then you have it apart and are in trouble.

I would say be careful driving it. I've had one come apart before.

I would not drive the car until the issue is found and repaired. The consequences of doing so can be bad sometimes.

Your description tends to indicate something has gone bad in an important area.

I would inspect the upper torsion bar to which the upper control arm is attached. With the wheel leaning in, (and did he say it was on the curb side), it sounds like the torsion bar under the battery box might have corroded to the point of near total failure. Don't drive it until you check. Remove the battery, and the ledge that the battery sets on. and right under there is a real problem area. Look at it!

I wonder if you have had a massive failure of the inner (pivot) bushing on the upper control arm/balljoint. This happened to me earlier this year. I did not notice anything was wrong until I pulled the wheel to do something else and realized the tire was rubbing on the shock. (Where I park I never see the front end of the car straight on, and you don't notice the lean as much when looking at the wheel from the side.)

The disintegration of the bushing would account for a clunk.

I am attaching a pic of a new control arm/balljoint with a worn one beside. This is not from my car, the bushing had failed way worse on my passenger side. It's just to give you an idea.

If this is the issue, it is a just-do-able job outside in current northeast coast conditions, if you have to work that way. But just, for someone doing it for the first time. But recruit a second set of hands and find a place where you won't be rushed.

There are a few DIYs floating around that contain the instructions on how to do it, but some cover it in the context of a more complete front end rebuild. Have a look at this one for starters: http://dieselgiant.com/mercedes_upper_control_arm_repla.htm

so i guess i see what is wrong. i'm not very familiar with front end stuff but judging by zacarias' picture i'm assuming this is the upper control arm. in comparing it to the control arm on the other side, it almost just seems like the nut the held the second bushing fell out...and the bushing along with it. could it possibly be as easy as forcing everything into alignment somehow and just putting in a new nut/bushing? what is the name of the part that disattached itself from the UCA?

Yep, you lost the bolt that holds the torsionbar/bushing assembly to the upper control arm. That's a known rust and failure area so hopefully the torsion bar is not buggered and the internal threads are still good.

It looks like the bushing in the upper arm where it passes through the body is failing, also. You can probably buy the torsion arm bushings, washer and bolt separately, but if it was me, I'd go ahead and buy the kit and replace the entire arm. The worn upper bushing probably contributed to you losing the torsion arm hardware. I'm not sure if the bolt comes with the kit--you might have to pull the one on the other side to get a size, or maybe someone here knows.

You need to check the other side anyway, as chances are it is worn, too.

just to clarify, you are recommending replacing the entire upper control arm...not the torsion bar? right? also, torsion bar = sway bar?

is there an easy way of aligning the upper control arm and the torsion bar so i can get that bushing/bolt back in? not sure what I'm supposed to force...

not necessary to replace upper control arm. I did because it was one of those while-I'm-in-there things.

torsion bar = swaybar

this is not easily replaced w/o removing engine from car, hence the repair sleeve.

Did you just lose the bushing + washer + bolt on the end? threaded area still there?

carpenter man said

"You can probably buy the torsion arm bushings, washer and bolt separately, but if it was me, I'd go ahead and buy the kit and replace the entire arm. "

i am just trying to confirm which 'kit' and which arm he is talking about replacing...i'm assuming a bushing kit for the torsion bar (although I don't see one at the peach parts store) and replacing the upper control arm...

heres the thing
 

couldn't tell from your photos, but if the bar-end has not broken off, you just need a bushing, washer & bolt to be on your way.

here is a photo of the other side that wasn't broken, where I just replaced the upper arm.

You can do whatever you want about replacing the entire upper control arm or not. It looks worn to me. There shouldn't be any side to side movement. If there is, it will mess up your alignment.

Anyway, this is the arm. Since I couldn't find it on Peachparts, the links are from the auto haus in Arizona:

http://www.***************/search/product.aspx?sid=ooa1zh2tubecfc45xmviz355&makeid=800016@Mercedes&modelid=1194308@300TD%20&year=1981& cid=27@Suspension%20System&gid=7536@Control%20Arm%20%26%20Ball%20Joint%20Assembly

Since it doesn't come with the sway bar bushings:

http://www.***************/search/product.aspx?sid=ooa1zh2tubecfc45xmviz355&makeid=800016@Mercedes&modelid=1194308@300TD%20&year=1981& cid=27@Suspension%20System&gid=7532@Control%20Arm%20Bushing

I couldn't find the bolt and the washer. May have to go to the dealer.

P.S. You don't have to remove the engine to replace the sway bar, but the battery tray, some heating hoses, and brake booster have to be removed.

You know, Quahog, it's great that you were able to repair your sway bar with the repair kit, but why confuse the poster with your information until he determines that he needs it.

Just replace the god*****amn arm with bushings and see how it works.

The "torsion bar saver" costs $120 and requires cutting & welding. Strange to describe that operation as "just ...", especially with the OP having to work in a parking lot. A bolt & washer would be my approach. If you can't find the correct factory part, Ace Hardware might work. If Ace'ing it, I wouldn't fuss trying to find the exact length bolt. I would look for a longer bolt (of correct thread), jam it in tight, then use a nut acting on a big washer to tighten the rubber bushing. You could probably drive that way for years until you have a nice garage and doing the whole suspension. Before that, get the correct bolt & washer at a junkyard. Those rubber bushings fell apart on my 85 300D, making a clunking sound when turning and hitting a bump, with no longer any support from the sway bar (similar to your case). The world didn't end and I drove it a few days until I figured out the problem.

The part might be termed a "sway bar" (more properly "anti-sway"), but it is more than that. On most cars, you can remove the sway bar without affecting the basic steering and suspension - i.e. the way the wheels track the road. They are optional to minimize body leaning in turns. Not so on these cars. The sway bar also locates the upper ball joint fwd & aft, so is necessary to align the front wheel.

Mr. Grissom, you misread my post. I said "just" replace the upper control arm, not "just" install the repair end.

Look at the OP's first photo. You can see a gap between the barrel of the upper control arm and the lip in the bushing. That's a failed or failing bushing.

Replacing the upper control arm is not a hard job and can be done for less than $100. The only tricky part is separating the ball joint and even that's no big deal if you have the tools. And even if you don't have the tools, all you have to do is lift the other wheel to put upwards force on the sway bar, loosen the ball joint nut a few turns, and tap on both sides of the fitting at the same time, and it should separate.

Here is a link to the pelican parts catalog.

1982 Mercedes-Benz 300D Base Sedan - Suspension, Shocks & Springs - Page 2


A DIY Link on the upper Control Arm:

PeachPartsWiki: Upper Ball Joint Replacement


Charlie

Not technically correct.


""The part might be termed a "sway bar" (more properly "anti-sway"), but it is more than that. On most cars, you can remove the sway bar without affecting the basic steering and suspension - i.e. the way the wheels track the road. They are optional to minimize body leaning in turns. Not so on these cars. The sway bar also locates the upper ball joint fwd & aft, so is necessary to align the front wheel. '"--- Bill Grissom

General mechanical knowledge and nomenclature pause....

As Bill mentioned this is a combo unit....
but in the past ' torsion bar' was a NON COILED spring.... usually placed lengthwise with the car... it took the place of coiled springs.... Mid sixties Plymouths were a good example of this... saves a lot of room around the suspension components...

The Mercedes 230 SL also had this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIuo82fubVA

as these are sometimes used interchangeably ... and sometimes not precisely correctly.... thought I would bring up the bigger picture for people to be aware of when reading about suspensions...

i stand corrected
 

Baum Tools called it a torsion bar... have seen it called a swaybar... it is confusing.

I hope everything works out ok.

In this case it is a combo unit... I was just addressing the blanket definition of ' antiswaybar Equaling torsion bar'... without including further qualification....

Carpenterman,

Sorry I misread. If the UCA is worn, for sure replace it. I recall seeing them fairly inexpensive, with ball joint already installed. I recall little trouble removing the upper ball joint stud with a pickle fork when I removed my spindle (to replace lower ball joint).

"Torsion Bar" usually refers to the main spring in a car's suspension, when of that design - 50-80's Chryslers, Porsches, some pickups. Usually, the bar is straight and only twists. However, Chrysler's 1977-83 F,M,J bodies (Aspen, Volare, ...) had a bent T-bar. They have a loading bolt, which allows easy road height adjustment and easy unloading for removal. Some hood and trunk springs are also "torsion rod springs" (60-70 Darts, Valiants). One advantage of T-bars is that the suspension weight is kept lower. Coil springs actually act as a "coiled torsion bar". The coils don't bend. The rod twists as the spring is compressed, to give the springiness. A disadvantage is that there is also a shearing load, so must be a bit thicker. There must be a strong structure (i.e. heavy) up high to support the spring. If T-bars are superior, seems strange that some Mopar owners weld in an after-market coil-over conversion kit (>$3K).

For us DIYers, most of the big box auto stores rent speciality tools cheeep

That strong structure also incorporates an adjustment mechanism... So if time and corrosion have take their toll.. then it would be hard to repair that mechanism..... and it was important that the height be adjusted to level ... I think they factory spec required one quarter of an inch or less difference side to side.. and if it was not it gave a wavy ride not found on coil spring cars.. which of course did not have adjustments available at all... so many bit the dust due to mechanics not knowing how to keep them adjusted properly...
Only you and I would think of those torsion bars used on the hoods of those cars.... lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIuo82fubVA

At One minute thirty seven seconds of that video... you can see the advantage of a torsion bar suspension at the rear....
that extreme travel would not be possible with coil or leaf springs.... look at how level the body is... with the travel of the rear wheels so extreme...

my bushing arrived and i'm going to try and install today. i'll get a variety of 13mm bolts (don't know exact length that's needed). i'm wondering what i should be putting pressure/leverage on to try and get things lined back up? the sway bar?

um... that car has coil springs...

it does have a torsion antisway bar...

I thought I saw an exploded view lately using mopar style longitudinal torsion bars at the rear in combo with that transverse coil spring.... maybe I was dreaming...

Looks like they got that extreme range of movement with the coil springs placed near the center line of the car... so they do not bottom out like ours do way before that much movement...

yeah, looking at the suspension of that car, I'm amazed. it's a split solid axle car with a center pivot, and spring... and coil springs at the wheels...

does anyone have specs on the bolt that holds that front torsion bar bushing in place? i got the bushing today but it doesn't come with a bolt. i'd like to go back to fix the car with everything i need handy because there isn't a hardware store anywhere near the place i parked it. worse case scenario i show up with lots of sizes/lengths and hope something works but figured i'd see if anyone knows its size offhand...

I assume you mean the bolt that goes through the bushing on the upper control arm and into the front torsion bar => For something like that I would just go and buy the bolt at the dealer - it is a kind of mission critical bit.

I have no way of telling you the grade or size of the bolt or the pitch of the thread at the moment.

The bolt ended up being m10-1.5 . I used a 40mm long one...which wAs a little too long but I threw a few extra fender washers on and will replace with the correct length tomorow. Even though everything was out of line, it all pulled itself into place as I tightened the bolt. Thanks for everyone's help.