The same issues apply to heating #2 diesel. Diesel is lower in viscosity, worse as a lubricant, and has a lower boiling point than WVO. Heating #2 diesel to 600-900 F will compound those issues. I'd like to see some substantiation of those claims.

What do you mean "cutting WVO"? If that is blending with a percentage gasoline, I don't think you should heat that mixture, even to coolant temp, since gasoline has a much lower boiling point than WVO and it will be generating a lot of gasoline vapors.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

The "white paper" in post #13 is just a letter saying CARB doesn't disallow the pre-heater, not that it realizes any improvements.

The academic paper in post #26 is just calculations of liquid spray patterns. I knew Dr. Rolf Reitz when I attended spray conferences when I did such research. I also worked with the KIVA model (DOE for modeling diesel combustion). Skimming the paper, I saw no comparisons of pre-heating the fuel. Regardless, it is just calculations.

I agree one should pre-heat only the high-pressure tubes to the injectors. No sense risking damage to the IP from the lowered viscosity. A liquid-liquid heat exchanger would work best. I see no practical way to make one and it would add much risk. First measure the outside of the tubes while operating the engine. If close to the coolant temperature already, the exchanger wouldn't help. Don't try to go above the coolant temperature (85 C). The exchanger would add much risk - coolant leaks, corrode injector tubes getting fuel into coolant, heat fuel tank, ... Warmer fuel would likely atomize better. Real world data on mileage improvements and/or smoother running would be interesting. Not the type of silly claims that sellers of fuel line magnets make.

How much chatter could have been saved if you guys just believed me...?

But it is interesting to find out some of Bill's background....

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/10414-help-i-need-check-stretch.html

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

cutting means #2 with grease, or at least that is what I meant. I live far enough south to avoid the bitter cold.

As for the WVO community, folks have been cutting WVO with RUG for years and heating it and no reported issues, so those zillions of miles probably substantiates it's OK. Obviously, when you exceed the normal 5% or 10% or even 20% which I have heard folks doing, there's no reported issues. I am guessing of course one invites issues or problems by exceeding the low % #'s.

But not heating to the 600 f to 900 f mentioned in the OP.

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

Reid Vapor Pressure is a measure of a given fuels' volatility.

Reid vapor pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite the link, it can and does apply to any and all hydrocarbon based fuel; however it is more Crucial towards gas. If the RVP of gas is too high when temps are too high, you are much more prone to vapor-lock, as well as the EPA gets its panties in a bunch and says we are polluting too much; therefore RVP is highly controlled during summer months. Ever noticed a drop-off of performance with your gas-run vehicles during the summer? Here is one major reason. RVP is not as crucial with Diesel, for the obvious fact that it isn't as volatile; however, wouldn't it stand to reason that If you could increase the volatility of Any fuel, it is More likely to atomize, and therefore burn more easily and efficiently?



I can find little support for the notion that copper catalyzes fuel, but I did find this...

Guidelines For Long Term Fuel Storage of Diesel and Storage Tanks

"Stability treatments target oxidation reactions and acid-base reactions in stored fuels. As you can guess, oxidation of the fuel happens when it is exposed to oxygen. The oxygen interacts with pre-existing "reactive components" that are already present in the fuel. This sets off chain reactions that turn healthy stable molecules in the fuel into unstable reactive molecules, eventually leading to fuel darkening and stratifying. Antioxidants are effective at interrupting the chain reactions at the beginning so they don't happen further down the line. Fuel stabilizers also prevent harmful acid-base reactions in the same way, by reacting with acidic precursors in the fuel to prevent them from further reacting with other fuel agents. This is especially important when the fuel has been exposed to certain metals like copper and iron, as these metals catalyze or accelerate these harmful reactions. It only takes a minute amount of dissolved metal to speed these reactions up. You can use an antioxidant stabilizer that contains a metal deactivator to blunt this problem."

Now, this article is approaching the subject with the idea of how to store fuel; if you were to catalyze the fuel before use, then obviously the volatility would be lost during the time in storage. I believe if the writers would address the notion of catalyzing the fuel just before use, they would agree for me.

I accept that this last link may not assuage your skepticism, but I will continue to search as time permits.

I've heard the same, however, is there a concern with the fact that most RUG also contains ethanol?

I have heard rumors that some diesel in the midwest is being sold as "E-10" and contains up to 10% ethanol. How the hell would this work? I realize that there are likely polymer based additives that could keep ethanol miscible with diesel (or biodiesel, perhaps more likely), but I would imagine that even a little bit of ethanol in diesel would cause vapor problems (potentially hard starting on a warm engine?) on a non-DI diesel.

Not to mention that ethanol likes to absorb water and is awfully corrosive....

It's probably B-10, as in 10% biodiesel. I got it once or twice in the midwest during road trips across the country.

__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

That's what I figured, and had to look at the label again.... just to make sure I wasn't just imagining things... and it said "E-10."

My father in law put on a copper coiled heat exchanger on his gasoline chrysler minivan. Said he got 3 mgp better. He also tried the hydrogen fuel cell. That was cool. It worked enough to change the way his engine can and he had a control box to modify the computer input so it ran good. That got him a few mpg too. He was into that.

This combustion science stuff is interesting. I think it's a good track to pursue fuel economy. Its all about the burn. Thanks Farvergnugen for bringing it up or whoever started this . Blending diesel or wvo with 10% gasoline won't hurt a thing. Its in the owners manual for when you can't find D1 and its cold. But gasoline doesn't have as much energy as diesel. Diesels want cetane not octane. I don't know jack about it but its about burn rate and timing and a lot of factors. I did read that gasoline doesn't have as much energy as diesel and vegetable oil has a bit more energy than diesel. But the question is , does gasoline improve the burn efficiency enough to improve mileage of your diesel like those fuel additives do? Because with gas a buck cheaper than diesel now …

It won't hurt to heat it to 225F. They already said autoignition temperature of gasoline is about 500F about and Diesel is around the same. So heat and blend away. Thats what i do. Greasers don't have to worry about lowering the viscosity so much as we have to get to 225 before its even as bad a lubricant as diesel.

To get some extra heat for wvo get a 90C (194F) maybe 95C. Seems 100C could be attained with with exhaust plus coolant. Or get a 606 and you'll be at 90 and 100 regularly

My thought on injector line heaters is the fuel is pressurized so much in those lines and they are right on the engine so they stay hot already. But maybe there is something to them. Has anyone taken temps with a heat gun on them to see if there is much difference? Not that i don't trust you Fatty I'm gonna have to try that seeing as i have them. I just need the heat gun (Christmas idea ! )

Also, if you want to try exhaust gas heat, look for vw in the junk yard and grab an egr cooler off of it. I know the tdis have them. Exhaust goes through it before it hits the egr. Coolant goes through 1/2 inlets and outlets. I so want to hook up my vegetable oil lines to that thing in place of the coolant. I need to check the exhaust gas temp first though. I've been scared it will get too hot.

__________________
What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

I'd be pretty concerned that the exhaust temp is going to be a bit hot......

Cmon. Stop joking. Someone might think you're serious. Vapor pressure always changes with temperature. If you manage to change it with a catalyst, you turn it into something else, which may or may not be good. Here's a nice video that explains how fuels are made, including a bit on how catalytic cracking works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVZjg4c93mA#t=270

It's a bit dated, but other than the addition of methanol instead of lead, it's still the same idea today.

As for other nonsense that's been posted here, almost all US gasoline today is 10% ethanol. That percentage may rise thanks to our dysfunctional congress, which years ago mandated that oil companies had to use a certain number of gallons of methanol each year. Since gas consumption has been flat to down due to recession, alternative fuels, and more economical cars, the percentage of alcohol in gasoline has been increasing.

If you think this is hurting your home brew fuel, you're probably right. Stop doing what you're doing. And if you need to heat your fuel over 200F to make it flow and vaporize, then you need to think about what that stuff is doing to your car, not about where to find a fuel heater.

Edited, for the sake of clarity.


Your response today... Good, that's what they need to think.

And with other factors, yes.

Catalyzing certainly alters things, but it certainly doesn't change it to something else, not in this case. If you believe it does, it might be helpful to know what that is, especially if you truly believe it isn't good. My experience demonstrates it Was good, and unless you are from MO, I would make the honest suggestion you consider matters with that frame.

In the meantime, I will continue to search for support for what I have lived.

Here's a nice video that explains how fuels are made, including a bit on how catalytic cracking works: