Please help me pick the correct order of these jobs - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Shortsguy1 · #1 12-08-2014, 12:01 AM

Hi-
I would like to remove the differential, axles, driveshaft, and automatic transmission from a w114 parts car for possible future use on my w115 (the process is basically the same as on a w123 as far as I can tell). I will be working alone and don't have a ton of tools (i.e., no transmission jack but will buy one if need be).

I was just wondering if there is a particular order of these tasks that will make the overall job as fast as possible. This will be my first time doing any of these jobs, so I suspect I will hit many challenges along the way. I won't be rushing, but at the same time I know my family life will be happier if I get this project done asap.

Some specifics questions: is it less work to remove the diff and the axles as a unit, or is it better to remove each axle and then the diff?

Should I start at the rear end and move up toward the transmission, or start at the tranny?

Should I buy a tranny jack, or can I get by with two bottle jacks, a floor jack, and four jack stands? I want to be safe, but also don't have tons of cash to throw at tools which I won't use more than once or twice.

Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

sixto · #2 12-08-2014, 12:21 AM

There's a thread (by charmalu?) about putting a 123 on blocks then pulling the rear subframe, axle and suspension as a unit. It's a somewhat practical unit since it'll roll on the road wheels.

Since the prop shaft has to come off to drop the tranny or rear axle, start by removing the prop shaft. Whether you remove the rear axle or tranny next doesn't matter since you can't move the car after you've removed one... at least I can't think of a practical way to support the engine with the transmission out.

I've replaced a number of RWD trannys without a tranny jack. Get the body high enough, lower the tranny on a floor jack then slowly pull the tranny-on-jack away from the car. When vertical clearance was an issue, I rolled the tranny from the jack onto a flat drip pan and pulled that away from the car (wear ear protection). Check craigslist for cheap used tranny jacks. FWIW, the $100 tranny jack on craigslist is $90 new at Harbor Freight before commonly available coupons.

Sixto
MB-less

Stretch · #3 12-08-2014, 12:26 AM

Seeing as you've got floor or low level based equipment I'd do the following.

I'd start at the back of the car and work my way forwards.

1) Lift the car onto four jack stands

2) Remove exhaust as a whole unit - bolts at manifold - bolts at the transmission - remove rubber mount in the rear sections (cut these if they give you any ****)

3) Disconnect the parking brake - cut the cables if you get any trouble

4) Loosen the bolts on the flex discs front and back - remove them if they will come out. See if the flex discs are going to come away from the yokes. I'm guessing they will be stuck.

5) Mark the propshaft position make sure both halfs have clear marks that won't rub off

6) At this point you could in principle remove the front wheels and lower the front end of the car and then raise the back end of the car (with the subframe mounts and differential mount undone) so that you can wheel the back wheels with everything still attached. But this depends on how high you can raise the back end of the car.

So I'll stop with the advice and ask

"How high can you lift the back end of the car?" => can you lift the back end high enough so that a wheel rolls under the back end of the wheel arch?

Also what do you mean by "floor jack" - is that a trolley jack?

Stretch · #4 12-08-2014, 12:28 AM

@Sixto - that's a picture of my car - I'm one of the few who has reported the lifting of the back end trick (others include Charmalu and Whiskeydan if I remember correctly)

sixto · #5 12-08-2014, 12:50 AM

Yup, I stole your picture, Stretch, because I found it before I found the one in my memory of the 123 in Oregon that Charlie(?) helped repair.

Sixto
MB-less

Stretch · #6 12-08-2014, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Yup, I stole your picture, Stretch, because I found it before I found the one in my memory of the 123 in Oregon that Charlie(?) helped repair.

Sixto
MB-less

I can't remember the times or places any more and the names have been changed to protect the innocent!

The W114/W115 chassis seems like the ideal car to have. There's a front subframe too

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair/220024-w114-115-subframe-restoration.html

It looks like you could drop the front subframe as well and then drop the engine and the transmission onto the floor as well.

(I'm not 100% sure about this - perhaps PM MikeD?)

Either way the ideal bit of kit for this kind of work is a two post lift. Axle stands are OK but the angles at which you have to lift the back end to get the wheels out is pretty hairy - you need to make sure the car isn't going to slip off the front stands... (i.e. leave the front wheels on just in case and chock the buggers too)

Shortsguy1 · #7 12-08-2014, 09:27 AM

Yes, floor jack = trolley jack. I don't know how high I can lift the car or if I can get the rear subframe out. I was hoping to end up with a rollable chassis to help get the car to the metel recycler. If it ends up on blocks, it is much harder to get rid of the leftovers.

Any other suggestions that could end up with a chassis still on wheels? Thanks.

Stretch · #8 12-08-2014, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Yes, floor jack = trolley jack. I don't know how high I can lift the car or if I can get the rear subframe out. I was hoping to end up with a rollable chassis to help get the car to the metel recycler. If it ends up on blocks, it is much harder to get rid of the leftovers.

Any other suggestions that could end up with a chassis still on wheels? Thanks.

If you remove the differential you end up with no "third mount" on the subframe

A block of wood wedged between the top of the subframe and the chassis would probably hold it in place for the purpose of rolling though.

But the differential is a bugger to remove from a subframe when it is fitted to the car.

I have heard that some W114/W115s have access holes in the boot (that's a trunk to you!) though - if your W114 happens to have those then unbolting the differential is made a whole lot easier.

Shame to waste the trailing arms though.

How about bolting some castors onto the bottom of the car?

You could even put castor on a lump of wood going across the width of the car and then remove said lump of wood and castors once it is in the scrap yard.

(Same could also be done for the front if you wanted the front subframe too)

Stretch · #9 12-08-2014, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Yes, floor jack = trolley jack...

With regards to pulling the transmission out from under the car a trolley jack would do if you are working at the height of axles stands - you do however stand a greater chance of damaging the transmission this way (better to remove engine and transmission as one unit)

vstech · #10 12-08-2014, 10:09 AM

don't worry about the wheels... just get a 7.5" circle saw (worm drive is best) and put the lennox metal cutting blade on it. WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!!!!! and inform ANYBODY nearby to wear a full face mask! then when you have pulled everything off the car, just cut into quarters, and toss the stuff in the back of a truck.

simple.

Junkman · #11 12-08-2014, 10:20 AM

Take the engine if you own the car. Rent a cherry picker and pull the engine and trans. I found a lovely 18 volt electric impact & drill set at Home Depot for $200 with a lifetime warranty including lifetime battery. Disassembly is a breeze.

I'm planning on buzzing the SD parts car apart if it doesn't sell with the 85 that I'm planning on getting rid of.

leathermang · #12 12-08-2014, 10:23 AM

Keep in mind he is not on concrete....
cherry picker on soil with diesel engine on it will not roll...
unless it had huge wheels...
overhead A Frame with four big wheels would...

DrLou · #13 12-08-2014, 10:34 AM

Shortsguy1

(I'm another of the lift-the-back-end crowd - Having just rebuilt/de-rusted/refinished the whole back end this summer: subframe, trailing arms, axles... With a lot of help/reinforcement from Stretch's posts. Yeah, I should get around to posting pictures.)

I'd make a few points: Your original post didn't mention it, but you might want to salvage the rear subframe as well.

You need a lot of clearance to get the subframe out, wheels on, and the car is then left in a pretty precarious position.

On the other hand, removal of the axles is quite easy, once the diff cover is off. Then, leaving the trailing arms on the subframe leaves you with a relatively manageable workflow. I did it this way as rebuild of the axles was on my Task List.

With the diff still mounted, the subframe-trailing arm assembly is still quite heavy, but manageable with your trolley jack.

Oh, and ++ on Stretch's comment to save the trailing arms; these are good to have. I would have bought these from you myself a few months ago!

uberwasser · #14 12-08-2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Seeing as you've got floor or low level based equipment I'd do the following.

I'd start at the back of the car and work my way forwards.

1) Lift the car onto four jack stands

Can you elaborate a bit on where you placed the rear jack stands with the subframe coming out? Thanks!

Stretch · #15 12-08-2014, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwasser

Can you elaborate a bit on where you placed the rear jack stands with the subframe coming out? Thanks!

Sure

I started out with the axle stands under the jacking points in the approved positions

The problem that will become apparent (I'm sure Dr Lou can confirm - sorry I forgot about your thread) is that the width of the front part of the subframe is slightly greater than the space between the axle stands on either side of the car.

The first time I did this job I used a 5th axle stand to temporarily hold the back of the car behind the rear wheel on one side so I could remove an axle stand under a rear jacking point to wiggle the subframe past. I then put the "real" axle stand back in place ASAP!

If only I had a 2 post car lift - all of the arsing about would be gone!