190D dilemma- what do I do?
 

My 190D is nearly mechanically perfect but sucks cosmetically. I have replaced or have the parts for about everything suspension or rubber related, as well as some engine work, rebuilt transmission, and other stuff. It runs great, doesn't burn or leak any oil between changes and rides pretty good (still have a few items left to do concerning springs and sway bars) Really mechanically, it needs little but interior is functional but ugly (tan seats from a 93 in a burgundy interior, cracked dash, rear door cards have some bits chewed up by a dog) and paint isn't great but decent.

Unfortunately as I was trying to unbolt my flex disc today to install my engine and transmission mounts, I found more rust. Before I knew there were some issues but it all was floor pans. All of this was hidden when I bought the car and I had no idea what to look for when I bought it. The rust I had discovered before I had planned to treat then patch with fiberglass but today I found the driver's side frame rail had a soft section about 10 inches long, so pretty serious structural rust.

So it stands I have quite a lot of money invested in this car (far more than it is worth) from all the new parts plus the transmission and some labor from my mechanic before I knew how to do much of anything on a car. The question is how should I proceed?

My main concern is that the vehicle would be unsafe in an accident. Drivers around Atlanta are terrible and I myself am a young drivers so statistically, I am more likely to get into an accident. Not that this is a deciding factor but something I have to seriously consider

So I could:

1. Not worry about it and not do anything about it.

2. Have the frame rail and other bits from my rust free but otherwise destroyed parts car welded into the 190D's body for probably a lot of money.

3. Find another W201 in good cosmetic shape and perhaps swap over the suspension bits and then maybe the drivetrain bits if needed.

4. Something else

5. Cry

3 and 5 .....
some things just happen like this in life...
you could not have anticipated it....
but do not continue driving it with the reservations about the structural safety...

most of the rest of us find we need a parts car ... or more than one... to keep these going with reasonable costs....
You just wound up doing it backwards.... you have the parts car...
now you need the good one...

If you're really interested in pursuing option 3, did you see this in the classifieds? http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-cars-sale/363294-super-clean-190e-shell-no-drivetrain-rust-free-%24500.html

Sounds like a great shell...seller was contemplating a diesel swap, etc.

Good luck.

I personally would go with quite a bit of 1 before proceeding to 4. However, I'll drive a car pretty much until it windows the block or breaks in half. So 4 is probably your best course of action.

6. Buy a Craigslist mig welder and some pieces of steel and learn a new skill.

I'm in the same exact boat. Getting another car with rust in all the opposite places. Gonna play doctor and make a Frankenstein.

It's only overwhelming because you don't know that type of work. If a body guy had a straight chassis and tons of mechanical problems he may feel the same.

But we can't see what you see. Maybe getting another chassis would be correct. I like that route, because you can sandblast it and paint it and swap stuff over easily. Not using a million baggies tearing one down.

Just get a mig welder and learn how to weld. I'd do that. No reason to throw a way good running car if the rust can be repaired safely. Sounds like it can, so that's what I'd do. I never really heard of the floor pans on these cars rotitng, mostly the w123s.

Something to consider-

You learn to repair rust on a mercedes with their 300lbs of vinyl coating everywhere that doesnt do shlt to actually stop rust, but makes welding a pain, ANY other make and model rust repair is childs play.

You will be able to repair anything with ease

Got a picture of this rust spot?

With no dis-respect. I think you did not look at the big picture before you pumped a ton of money into the car. For a start, you do not pump money into a car unless it is structurally sound and relatively rust-free. You can change everything, anything but the body. Rust is cancer and is hard to stop. If you are concerned about the structure integrity of the car then it is a part car. Forget about a mig welder, forget about a new skill . Buy a shell and transplant everything to re-coup your money. Or part it out.

Sorry to be so pessimistic but it is what it is. Learn a lesson and and move on.

Let me expand on JB3's view...
There are lots of threads in the archives about welding... floor pan replacement and that sort of stuff....
Welding when dealing with rusted automobile lower metal is seldom the proper way to make the situation safe.
The physics of it first.... stick a stick or any real heat... welding rod to already rusted metal and it goes AWAY.... gone .... not to be recovered.... and often will start a fire or make terrible fumes due to the stuff sprayed on it by the factory...
The short version of this advise is this...... find the metal that is good... treat the rusted metal.... and attach to the good metal overlapping with a combination of PLUG WELDS... and SOLID STEEL RIVETS...... alternating if you can depending on access to the backside of the good metal.... you make the holes with a cheap air powered combo offset flanger and a hole punch... that is what you plug weld through... you drill for the rivets...
You use Clecos to hold the sheet metal in place while you start the process of doing the permanent welds and rivets.... they will typically use a one eight inch hole.
You typically find the ' good metal ' by using a ' pick' hammer... it will show really fast what still has strength and what is punk.
These things are discussed in the archives under my name .... telling some really stubborn people that wanted to WELD a 100 percent seam installing a new floor pan... which.. for the record takes away any rust resistance the remaining metal had left...
You are encouraged to rust ' proof ' as best you can after the fix... keeping in mind that some things like fiberglass... or POR15.... will make future fixes almost impossible... and the POR15, while claiming a lot... MUST be applied under very specific conditions to obtain good results...
There are websites in the archives for things like the flanger, aircraft tools for rivet tools, etc....

Ah-kay is not being pessimistic ... being realistic about STRUCTURAL problems ... which affect Safety... is only smart... and while I did describe some metal working realities... remember that I suggested ONE and THREE in my first post... this other was just general rust information.... not for this car given what the OP has said...

Man I don't want to look at this thread. Lol. I'm gonna end up going option new chassis also.

... Really, unless the rust is minor, and it sounds very NOT MINOR... If rust is seen by the flex disc, and has compromised the seat rail... I'd walk from that car fast. Post pice of the damage, both sides, and maybe we can change our minds, but it's unlikely...

Scour the classifieds, find that rust free replacement 190 and swap over the rear subframe, and front end stuff, and call it good. Pull the engine/trans for a later upgrade, and learn where to spot rust in future car purchases.

It will be ok, just sob a little, and move on. Not worth your life in an accident. Georgia drivers are insane... Safety first and foremost.

Thanks for the advice guys. I know my purchase of this car wasn't the best decision ever, nor was putting money into it, I bought it without knowing enough about what to look for, it's been a learning experience. We did look for rust but it had been pretty well covered up so we didn't find any.

I personally think the best course of action is to reshell it, I know the drivetrain is good as is all of the suspension. I could also part it but I doubt many people would be willing to pay much of anything for used parts even if they are in like new shape.

Sad thing is I already have a rust free W201 but the exterior is in about the worst shape of any W201 I have ever seen. Paint is totally shot (PO thought she could improve the clear coat with low grit sandpaper) and it was in an accident.

My brother took what I learned about rust and 300K mile cars when he bought his 1980 300SD, it is had good suspension, no rust (sold by RBM of Atlanta and has been here it's entire life), and about the sweetest running, smoke free OM617 I have ever encountered. Also when we bought a running parts car for my dad's non running but rust free 240D, it had a 140K miles, a surprisingly smooth and quiet OM616, new suspension, good interior

I'll get pictures tomorrow if I can.

As far as not finding rust, one must remember that the OP lives in Atlanta. Cars don't rust in Atlanta.

I wound up with a rust bucket 240D once because I wasn't looking very hard since

1. I came from Atlanta, where rust isn't an issue and

2. I was buying the car in Carson City, NV, where rust also isn't an issue, not counting on

3. The car was from Iowa and the entire underside was fairly rotten underneath some pretty undercoating.

It worked out though. I only paid $480 for the car, drove it daily for about three years, and then cannibalized it for the transmission to do the swap on my 300.

How soft is the frame rail? The metal in the front subframes is surprisingly soft and can be deformed by using a floor jack on it, so perhaps its not as bad as you think...?

No matter how you cut it. Your bone is softer than the subframe, let alone the flesh. I would be wary, very wary, if the car is deemed by the OP as not structurally sound.

Can you post pictures? I have 2 190ds and i want to see whats prone to rust.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/...psa5a1c7ef.jpg
Only picture I got but that's about a 12 inch hole next to the frame rail. I was able to bend the metal back some and grab the rusted frame rail and bend the frame rail. I basically don't have any sort of solid floorpan on that side anyway.

Cheer up: Every true gearhead learns what you are learning now: Start with a strong body before you pour a lot of parts into it.


This platform in good condition is very stiff-- you can lift three wheels off the ground from one jack points Even with the rocker panels cut clear off.

But you are going to have to weld in everything that is missing, and its a lot of work.
In the end, moving to a new body is probably more time consuming, but likely easier, and could be cheaper if you find the right donor. (Look for a 190e with a blown transmission!!!)

I have never seen a 190 rusty like that. Usually 190s are not rust buckets, even up north they were not like that.

You must have one of those " chernobyl surplus models" damn that's rough dude
Cut The rot out is the only way ... But honesty if there is that much rot what does the rest of the car look like under all the bolts, screws, gaskets... Etc
2 years ago I did a 1988 suburban as a tow vehicle... It sat in the California mountains for 3 years and got dropped on in one place on the roof like that (barely sticking out of the carport) I had to cut out about another 1/4" of steel before I had viable plate to patch on to.

I have found a replacement that I am going to look at Saturday, hopefully it is good.

A Christmas gift from our city, tons and tons of salt:mad::eek::mad:
http://storage.ottawasun.com/v1/dyna...y=80&size=420x

Merry Christmas to all and to all good cheer

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/colline...newhillcam.jpg

Have you figured out what caused all that rust? Bad windshield seal? Water drains plugged up for years? Some nick or scrap on the metal that rusted that hole?

I'll get more pictures later. I think the rust was caused by road salt and crappy patching. I found out after I got the car that it had been delivered to a dealership in Virginia. I bought the car in North Florida. I bought it because it ran well but did need some work but had over 5 years of records from a reputable shop in Gainesville, which I later found out didn't mean much of anything.

I figure the guy I bought it from or a different PO, probably the original owner, wanted to sell it but it had rust issues so they covered it up well. It seems as if they simply sprayed undercoating and patched the holes in the rocker panels using aluminium and sheet metal screws then bondoed over it, trying to give it the texture of the plastic rocker panel covers.

I first realized I might have some rust issues when I couldn't find where the jack holes were and someone suggested that they had been bondoed over. Before that I had moisture in the carpet and had to replace the headlight buzzer as it was damaged by water and I thought it was a clogged drain hole or something.

After that I knew I had floor pan issues when I went to replace my seat with the seats from my parts car and the rear bolt in the track was completely rusted and I tried for days to get the seat out, eventually finding that the area under the car where the seat is was rusted and I was able to rip the seat out of the car by rocking the seat back and forth. I installed the seat with a bracket.

I had a look around and figured that the driver's side floor pan was shot and was thinking I would replace it with the floor pan in my parts car, which I was waiting for sufficient time to tackle. I thought that there was not any serious structural rust yet as I had only seen rust on the rocker panels and the rocker panels overall seemed to still be strong.

Since getting back from Tech on the 12th of December, the other day was the first day I really had under the car (installed euro headlights, did coolant change from universal green to Zerex G-05 and did the delivery valve seals the other day but otherwise have been working on a house my dad bought) and it was the first time I was working on the flex disc, also first time to have the car inside a garage to work on it (this new property has a huge garage, our house doesn't). I had placed the jack stands on the frame rails because I was going to drop the LCAs and put in new bushings in the front and springs in the front and rear but first I was going to change the motor and transmission mounts after solving my injection pump leak as they were all destroyed from age and diesel. While trying to figure out how to remove the flex disc, my friend said something that caused me to look over at my jack stands to make sure they were still secure. I then saw a split in the undercoating next to the frame rail and hit it with my ratchet and it was soft. At that moment I knew there was little point in me doing much more work as the rust was worse that I had thought. I poked around a bit and found it was about 12 inches down the frame rail that it was soft, the other side had no issues.


Unfortunately, yes, this car has a ton of money poured into it. Much of what I replaced was original to the car, asterisks are by those, meaning PITA for me or my mechanic. These are the job that have been done since I have owned it, most of it my work except a few of the bigger jobs, of which I can remember:

Replaced auto transmission with rebuilt unit*
Replaced 3 of 4 hubs, one new********** (three words: broken lug bolts)
Replaced rear wheel bearings
New Bilstein HD shocks and struts*
New rear tires
New coolant reservoir cap
New brake master cylinder*
New brake lines*
New brake discs and pads, twice for the front as I put in the bigger calipers from my 2.6 parts car
New glow plugs
New tie rods
New stabilizer bar*
All rear links*
All rear bushings except main subframe bushings and sway bar bushings*
Diesel purge
New injector nozzles and balancing by Greazzer
New delivery valve seals
New AC expansion valve, seals and receiver dryer with new sensors, freon
Rebuilt climate control unit
New aux fan coolant sensor and resistor
All fluids and filters including differential
Late W201 leather steering wheel
Euro lights
Great brake light mod
Late W201 seats
Headlight buzzer
Most fuel lines, about to be all fuel lines so I can move it
Throttle linkage joints
Valve cover and intake gasket
Odometer repair
CLK rims with newish cheap tires that happened to be the right size
Alignment

And jobs I had the parts and tools for:
Engine and transmission mounts
LCA bushings
Idler arm bushings
Springs and spring pads
Complete shifter rehab
Trim clips for one piece of exterior trim
All sway bar bushings

Next item that needed attention after all of that was the radio.

I had just been to my mechanic's shop earlier in the day with my car to show him some of what I had done plus check in on our Sprinter (black death #2, terrible stuff, not the most reliable vehicle) and he said that the car still sounded great as always.

I have decided the proper send off for this car is to make a last official drive to the dealership to apply for its 500,000 KM award, then it will probably sit in the garage and be driven once in a while to keep it the drivetrain working until I find a proper shell to put the parts into. The grill will hang in my room with its high mileage badges. I had been hoping to get to 750,000 KM or more in that car but it'll just have to be the engine now. I jokingly told my friend I was going to hire a bagpiper and have a funeral.

190 shell
 

You did see this right?

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-cars-sale/363294-super-clean-190e-shell-no-drivetrain-rust-free-%24500.html

Hook up the trailer and head up north before it snows!

That car looks great but is too far. Our tow vehicle is in the shop and I am going to be in Miami next from Sunday to Thursday then back to school on next Monday so no time to do it even if I had something to tow it with.

Curious about the bad experience with the sprinter. Will pm eventually. Lol.

Think about how nice it will be to swap over. With a shell fully broken down you can sandblast/paint/undercoat everything so easily. It's gonna look like it just came off the lot.

Why even undercoat? My mom's 96 Grand Marquis has no undercoating and more importantly no rust. Undercoating that fails just traps moisture

I tend to agree - undercoating can hide a whole lot of trouble. The damage you show in this picture

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/...psa5a1c7ef.jpg

was probably caused by a leak from above rather than a problem from below.

I've been using old fashioned - not so great when it burns - bitumastic undercoating that doesn't trap water for lengths and lengths of the car. Better still would probably be that POR15 chassis top coat (on solid metal)

Can you weld?

190D dilemma- what do I do?
 

Because that technology has improved a lot since your car was built.

I haven't got into it yet so I don't know what to use.

In Hawaii we used something that was meant for boat trailers that were backed into the ocean constantly. Worked great.

On the farm I used a brush on enamel. Also worked great.

They make a lot of spray on bed liner materials. Haven't checked them out.

But as stretch said, the rust usually comes from the top. Keep the windows sealed and problems won't start.

I'm in the same boat. I was riding a motorcycle before, so I feel pretty safe with the rust. I'm getting another chassis, and I'll slowly pick away at getting it prepped. Sandblast and paint every surface. Well, probably primer, and pay someone to paint. But if you bring something in ready to go into the booth, it's not bad.

Bummer man, seems odd usually everything else goes first (brake lines, fenders, etc.) before you have to worry about structural rust, maybe that's just with the salt induced variety.