Bigdaddy , lol, that sounds funny, Did you have engine electronic problems in your ml?
I don't know about you all but for me the modern engine electronics have been very welcome from a maintenance stand point and very reliable. I've had trouble with other fancy systems but the engines and trannies have been great.

I'll take a drive by wire 606 over a 617 with 20 linkages to adjust and grease and bushings to that wear out and make your gas pedal stick. And an electronic shut of valve -- can i get an amen ? Even if it does leak a little fuel every now an then.

And the electronic controlled transmissions and valve bodies are great. No more crazy vac systems there. And the new CDI engines -- no injection pump timing , simple computer controlled injectors and a high pressure loop. The ip's are super easy to change if they break. Computers are best at repetitive boring tasks and firing injectors at just the right time and the length of time is a great job for them I think.

The only downside might be if you can't get a sensor or electronic part or if your battery alternator dies. And now if your car gets hacked. The 2006 e320 i just got has some electronic gremlins that are hard to figure out but none with the engine. It tells me to visit workshop 5 times when i start it but the check engine light isn't on.

IMO, they need to improve the onboard diagnostics . In fact, where is the "onboard" part? The diagnostic display? Doesn't that seem like a huge missing part of OBD? someone must have lobbied hard to get that piece left to proprietary dealers and software. With the E320 they sort of made a half assed attempt at showing your more specific errors than just a check engine light but it doesn't help you diagnose anything. I mean it was real halfassed. This car has a DVD drive , 6 cd changer plus an extra cd drive, a 6 inch display with a million buttons around it . But all i get about my car problems are a few unhelpful words on the intrument cluster like "Cruise Control -- visit workshop! " , "SRS , visit workshop" . C'mon man!

I'm going to check into any hacks they might have to make the display actually useful for something other than lousy maps. This is kind of interesting: WTF! It Should Not Be Illegal to Hack Your Own Car's Computer | WIRED Kind of scary when you think of self driving cars and self stopping cars being hackable. Bad news for tuners as ecus may get locked down more. It's going to be interesting how they prevent hacking but still allow any shop to hook up a computer to the car. One way to increase security would be to not allow computers to be hooked up to the car at all and build in the missing diagnostic display. "Replace cam position sensor. It is in the back of the engine and you have to pull the turbo, and exhaust manifold. HA HA". "Test temperature sensor with the red plug by the front headlight. Ohms should be between 40 and 60 ".

Cars are the new big business for computer programmers. Hmm, Bigdaddy, you may be on the right track after all. When everyone's cars are crashing into each other because of a virus, you can just pull over and watch the show.

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What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

I am having no more options than this

The best Mercedes diesel that I ever owned was my 1981 300D stretch limousine...... it wasn't a "formal" with 6 doors but an actual 60" stretch...... I bought it in 1991...... I turned wrenches for a living back then, and the car was well maintained, still I rebuilt the vacuum pump, replaced the alternator, all new hoses and belts, all fluid changes, new battery and replaced the radiator....... I did all this before I even put it on the road....... This car had a rear trunk mounted ac unit for the rear passengers, black privacy glass, crushed velvet interior with the exception of the standard leather seat and additional jump seats, a refrigerated bar, tv with built in vcr (we're talking 1991 here), opera lights, I could go on and on........

I would come out of the Lincoln tunnel, get on the NJ turnpike and average 85-90 mph..... This car was super-sleek, light and hauled ass at highway speeds.... I never had a major continent breakdown in the 8 years that I owned it...... I drove that car from Boston to Florida many many times........ My brother borrowed it and it was totaled by a bus in Brooklyn

I've had several 300SDs, many 300Ds, about 6 240Ds....... but never a diesel newer than a 1986...... I purchased a 1997 e320 W210, which was a piece of crap...... after that I went to the MLs

Anyway, my point of asking the original question was that my experience with the W123s and their reliability is what made me a Mercedes fan........ After my 210 and now owning an ML500 sport edition...... Well, I'm not feeling that reliability factor like I once did

These days, I'm a high tech electronics tech so I can put just about anything I want into any car.... My ML500 has a digital video recorder with multiple day/night vision cameras that I use for surveillance as I do electronic security for the banking industry, I have solar panels to power the system so I can leave the vehicle parked and still record.....

That's a simple example of what you can incorporate into any vehicle

I want to buy a used diesel this year and based upon what's been replied, it sounds like the W210s are the best way to go...... Though, I have located a W140 1993 300SD that I just love to look at....... I've read that the 350SDs have rod bending issues....... I would really prefer the w140 diesels

Thanks again

__________________
Currently Driving
2006 E320 CDI
1999 E300 Turbo Diesl
2002 ML500
1995 E320 Station Wagon


MBs I've owned
1997 E320 Assassinated by Pine Tree
1987 300E Wife Killed Engine
1981 300D Stretch Limo Total Loss
1970 250 Coupe 212,000 mi.
1974 450sel 184,000 mi.
1974 240D 377,000 mi.
1977 300D 204, 000 mi.
1979 280se God Only Knows!
1983 240D 130,000 mi.
1972 220D 280,000 mi.
1983 300SD 244,000 mi.

My stick 240D has no valve bodies - electronic or otherwise. And speaking as someone that can use tools other than a keyboard, it would be such a simple matter to rig a dashboard cable to the mechanical diesel shut-off, if my vacuum operated one ever fails.
And assuming your e320 survives to be as old as my 240D, it will probably be telling you to "visit workshop" by being immoblised with some electronic failure.
Which will probably cost 5-10K to fix, assuming components are still availible then for an electronic system that will be several generations old!
Of course by then, fossil-fuel vehicles will probably be banned anyway.
We'll all be using foot-power or public transport, with private electric vehicles restricted to 'people that matter'!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

I have had both a 83 300D (first Benz) and currently a 87 300D. I like both but the added power of the 603 engine is noticable. I would say go look at the 350SD and see if the engine was rebuilt/replaced. If so, you should not have as much as a concern. Also, some people have replaced the bottom ends with the 603960 block, which never had the problem with bent rods. on the 603 blocks, you can find the engine serial number stamped onto the block just above the injection pump or on a sticker that is just below the head adjacent to the transmission bell house.
Good luck,
Lee

That's cool. Sounds fun. What computer system do you use for troubleshooting your car? The W210s are awesome and best bang for the buck now. I recommend them to everyone I know and let my friends use mine when i work on their car. They all love it and are impressed with how smooth it is.

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What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

Lol. I'll take my chances on the immobilizer and enjoy my 35 mpg, anti lock brakes, and traction control for as long as I can and sporty ride. I do hate the immobilizers though. I'm not sure why those became a necessity in cars. Maybe just an excuse to charge 250.00 for a key? That is cynical. But i'll hang on to my 1985 190D for the Mad Max days when it tries to attack me.
Car companies have engineered so many improvements in cars over the years that I care about that I cut them a little slack on the things I don't like.

__________________
What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

Generally in the USA 1985 and earlier = EMP resistance (pure mechanical injection pump).
ROFL

.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

Now, I DO own a couple relatively high-tech (compared to my 240D) late 90s Asian vehicles, with electronic injection, airbags, tranny, etc.... No ABS, but enough technology for me.
But today, manufacturers have engineered their computerised creations to make them off limits to the typical DIY tinkerer or even professional mechanics.
Typically, the cars are good for 10 years or so. Then, when the computer systems start to fail, the cost or inability to repair forces the owner to dump the vehicle
Which is a win-win situation for the manufacturers as the average consumer has little choice but to buy a new car.
I've known several people that got rid of otherwise useable vehicles after the antilock/stability-control system either developed a dangerous intermittent fault that repair shops were unable to diagnose, or in the case of a friend's Mercedes ML320, wanted $3600 to repair! And currently, a '99 Volvo S70 and 2001 BMW 323iC with multiple electronic failures that their owners are unable to drive because they won't pass emissions inspection.
Planned obsolescence to the max!
It certainly doesn't bode well for vintage cars of the future.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

There will be no vintage cars of the future. For the reasons outlined in these posts. New cars are fine while they are new. When they reach their sell by date they are useless.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Dictated by government mandate, driven by the insurance industry lobby.

In later 124s, there is a simple starter cutout relay behind the cluster that is actuated if the alarm is tripped.

The 210 (especially the late 97's and up that have the SmartKey) will shut the entire party down if the anti theft (code name DAS for Drive Authorization System) is not satisfied. The starter will still spin but that is it. Fuel cutoff valve stays de-energized, and even if you try to get wise and bypass that, the CAN bus interaction between the pedal sensor, rack actuator, and transmission controller is disabled, ensuring you are not getting anywhere.

__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech

People have been saying that (at least) since electronic fuel injection started getting common. Yes, it's new technology that you may not know how to work on when it first comes out, but the information gets around. Workarounds to expensive problems get developed. Aftermarket stand alone engine controllers are a thing now. Today's new cars will still be driving around in 30 years. At least the ones people find interesting enough to want to keep driving.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

A mechanic just told me by law in U.S. the car manufacturers have to release their diagnosis system codes to third parties so scanners and people can program diagnosis.software. It seemed he was saying it was a new law. Anyone heard of this? I couldn't Google master it. I know some charmalu could find it .

__________________
What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

OBD II codes, YES.

Any security system or other codes = NO.

Any security system related = the manufacturer can refuse.

Mercedes Benz has refused to follow this law, and successfully told the US government where, when, how to get stuffed for many years.

.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

I think this is also partly related to the US government trying to stop certain types of encryption - they want encryption to be crackable so bad folks can't hide stuff (see this kind of information out there on the interweb => Hard to Crack: The Government’s Encryption Conundrum - The New Yorker)

Although the biggest concern is electronic communications the technology built into cars could in principle be adapted for other purposes - my understanding is that to a certain extent even the security systems can not be made too difficult to crack.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!