Uncooperative OM617 start-up (helping a friend) - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mach4 · #31 02-10-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

LOL... have had those semi serious thoughts sometimes myself...
' special tool '...
we need a picture of that..
he might need to make one for this job...

Here's an image of the tool I made. (Link to post describing in detail)

Pictorial: W123 300D Turbo Starter Motor Replacement

leathermang · #32 02-10-2015, 01:05 PM

OK... after reading what else you took off... and it looks like you may not have been working on exact replica vehicle..
I suggest that the extensions from under the car are the more logical and lower labor method....

Jetmugg · #33 02-10-2015, 01:20 PM

I'm happy to help someone with a project, even though I have plenty of my own. I have a VW diesel powered race vehicle, just bought an '05 4Runner that needs some sprucing up, in addition to my 190D daily driver and my wife's minivan, all on top of hobbies, kids activities, etc.

With respect to the starter, I know I've taken the starter off my old '80 300SD many years ago. It seems like I was able to do it with about 3 feet of 3/8 drive extensions and a U-Joint, but I don't remember exactly the combination of tools required for the job.

I would hope that it wouldn't take cutting a 10mm Allen wrench in half, along with 2 combination wrenches and a ball of electrical tape, although if that's what's needed, then that's what's needed.

There's nothing like laying underneath a car with black filth falling in your face to build character and make you decide whether you are really committed to finishing a job.

Steve.

Phillytwotank · #34 02-10-2015, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg

It seems like I was able to do it with about 3 feet of 3/8 drive extensions and a U-Joint, but I don't remember exactly the combination of tools required for the job.

That is what it takes. Rather easy that way IMO.

Jetmugg · #35 02-10-2015, 02:32 PM

I have pulled more than one W201 transmission while laying in the filth of a gravel junkyard, using the same 3 feet of extension and the same U-Joint, trying to get all 10 of those &6*%$## bolts loose.

For that job, once you realize that two 18 inch extensions and a U-joint are required, the rest is just about the cussing and the bloody knuckles.

Steve.

BillGrissom · #36 02-10-2015, 02:54 PM

You sound like a really decent guy, and I hope that family appreciates. Too many people are indecisive, and that comes from fear, usually from lack of knowledge. Frustrating for those who try to help. Even my wife never trusts me, despite seeing me fix multiple cars over 3 decades.

Diesels are fine for sitting long times, which is why they are backup engine on sailboats. My 1985 300D sat for over 3 yrs (in garage) while I figured out how to deal with the failed engine. I ran the replacement engine on a stand, feeding it from a bottle, and it started right up after priming w/ the hand pump. Since her engine just sat, it shouldn't have air bubbles in the system. I don't recall getting a spray when cracking an injector tube, just a dribble. There isn't much volume on each squirt at "idle pedal". To insure all air is out, I suggest cracking each injector tube and pumping the hand primer as the starter is cranked. That way, the primer pump will flow thru each injector cylinder, just like when one does an injector timing "drip test". Tighten the nuts while still cranking to insure no air back-flows. Stick the lift pump supply hose into a jar of clean diesel.

leathermang · #37 02-10-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg

..... It seems like I was able to do it with about 3 feet of 3/8 drive extensions and a U-Joint,.......Steve.

That seems about right..... except I suggest Half Inch drive stuff... if that bolt is really tough the skinny extensions just bend...and you only have a certain amount of room... unless you are on a lift...

Jetmugg · #38 02-10-2015, 03:47 PM

You are right, Leathermang. 1/2 drive stuff transmits the torque better. I don't happen to own two 18 inch 1/2 drive extensions, but I'm not opposed to buying some.

That moment when the 3 feet of 3/8 drive extensions "breaks loose" the bolt is a moment that you really feel the snap in your hand. OUCH.

Steve.

Jetmugg · #39 02-10-2015, 04:02 PM

That's a good point about the volume of diesel injected with each "shot" with the throttle pedal at idle.

Next time, I'll crank with the pedal at WOT, maybe that will help get some more fuel moving.

The first time I went over (with the battery from my 190D), I was pretty confident that I would be able to hook up a fresh battery and fire it right up.

Sadly, that didn't happen (yet).

Steve.

Skippy · #40 02-10-2015, 04:24 PM

I'm thinking the no start is a combination of glow plugs and fuel filters/water and who knows what else in fuel.

leathermang · #41 02-10-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg

.... 1/2 drive extensions, but I'm not opposed to buying some..... Steve.

After equipping myself in this area.... I used to joke that I could work on my car from my front porch.....
Seems like ..on my non turbo , non monovalve, 240 that I may used them for the lower bolt on the starter .. with my hands near the radiator...
this is with the car on the ground and the starter is turned 90 degrees and comes straight up and out... after taking the battery out and moving the wires to towards the engine... all the work being done over the fender...

ROLLGUY · #42 02-10-2015, 06:07 PM

With the many posts and differing opinions, this is going to be an interesting thread to follow. I could offer my opinion as well, but it would be mostly a mixture of everything else said (many great suggestions so far, and all have some merit). I have a good idea of exactly the reason why it won't start, but I will keep it to myself for now and see how it all plays out. One thing for sure, you don't want to do more than one thing at a time. Fir instance, if you do the 4 different fuel related things all at once, you won't know which one was causing the no start condition. And yes, it sounds like the starter needs to be replaced or rebuilt anyway, so no sense doing anything else until that is accomplished. Unfortunately this is the main reason why these cars end up in wrecking yards. I am thankful that you are willing to help them get the car back on the road. If you were not in their life, the car might have already been at it's final resting place in row 52 for all the vultures to pick at

. Not that is the worst thing that can happen, as I am glad for the occasional 'Benz in the yard to pick at (I guess that makes me a vulture too

), but perfectly viable cars should never be there. This car seems like it is well worth the effort to get back on the road again, and I hope you figure it out so everyone is happy....Rich

Quahog · #43 02-10-2015, 06:13 PM

rooting for ya from the sidelines

leathermang · #44 02-10-2015, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

..... I have a good idea of exactly the reason why it won't start, but I will keep it to myself for now and see how it all plays out.

One thing for sure, you don't want to do more than one thing at a time. Fir instance, if you do the 4 different fuel related things all at once, you won't know which one was causing the no start condition. ...Rich

Rich, You do not score points claiming to know the answer but keeping quiet... GO BOLD.... tell us what you know and we will tally the points when the report comes in.... As Stretch says.. it is all about the Points....

yes, a shame to do more than one thing at a time and end up not knowing what was actually the cause of the no start condition....

funola · #45 02-10-2015, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg

............................

I don't have a good way to measure rpm's while cranking. It sounds like it should be spinning fast enough to start. ....................................

Here are some videos at different cranking RPM. Play it from your smartphone and compare to the sound to her car while cranking to get an idea what it's at.

180 RPM No glow plug extended cranking start using a diagnostic port adapter I built and an inductive timing light CLICK TO PLAY

164 RPM using a Photo tach CLICK TO PLAY

Not sure about RPM since Photo tach is not legible (it's slower, I think it's around 150 RPM) CLICK TO PLAY