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  #31  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:05 AM
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Id be looking at a good set of line wrenches, something like Eastman. I just got a set delivered for under $20

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1985 300D 198K sold
1982 300D 202K
1989 300E 125K
1992 940T

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  #32  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceristimo View Post
@Skid Roe Joe

Thanks for the info. Honestly, the climate control is the least of my worries right now. When I had the selector on "cold", it did stop pumping out heat after like 10 minutes. I think the switch still works (it 'clicks' at maximum cold and hot too), but that the climate unit is not sensing the temperature correctly.

So, reading what Diesel911 said on the previous page, I just walked out and check the oil cooler hoses a bit better.
And, one of them is definitely showing signs of the power steering belt cutting into it. I guess I have a collapsed engine mount on the drivers side.

I'm hoping that will be fixable without an engine hoist? I have a jack, I do not have an engine hoist...


It seems that every time I make a list of parts to get and the order in which to repair things, something else pops up.

At first it was: replace all fluids and drive. Then it became: replace boot on rear axle, replace fluids and drive.
Then it became: replace rear axles, replace flex discs, replace fluids and drive.

And now my list is:
- replace engine mount
- replace oil cooler lines
-replace diesel return lines
- replace flex discs
- replace at least the drivers side axle. Passenger still looks good
- replace all fluids

I wonder how long my list will be come tomorrow...
I've replaced engine mounts & oil-cooler lines on my '83 300SD myself in my garage with a 3-ton jack and two jackstands - but it's better on a lift, and less dangerous than doing them at home.

So, it can be done DIY at home, because I've done it. The oil cooler lines aren't a slamdunk on a lift - much less DIYing them at home - I'll tell you that from personal experience. Here again, it's somewhat dangerous doing DIYs at home with the engine up off it's mounts, and your hands and wrists under the engine, only having the cheap hydraulic floor jack as the lift of the engine.

Shop the oil cooler lines and fittings. 20 years ago I paid almost $300.00 with tax for genuine MB parts @ wholesale from the MB dealer. I think guys here can advise you on the replacements for less that'll do just fine.

My W210 '99 E300TD and '06 E320 CDI - I've R & Red the engine mounts of both cars on a lift @ the Mercedes-Benz dealership on Saturday DIY hobby day. Much better AND safer than in your own garage without a lift. At the dealership you have use of their pedestal hand-crank engine lift to lift the engine when replacing the mounts.
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  #33  
Old 02-19-2015, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceristimo View Post
Hi DRK. Thanks for the advice. I saw in a how-to that you need like an open-ended box wrench to loosen up the lines.
Do you know if that kind of wrench has a special name to it? I tried finding a place to get one, but I don't really know what to search for...
When you "loosen" the oil-cooler lines nut (upper and lower) one at a time - try to exert an "equal amount" of arm-muscle pressure on the oil-cooler assembly when torqueing off the nut. I was able to (keep from) destroying the oil-cooler radiator tower using this method on my 300SD.

Be gentle, but firm as you apply pressure to loosening the big nut. With an almost equal amount of pressure to keep from torqueing the oil-radiator apart.

FYI:
The engine mounts have a bolt holding them in place from above - you can't see this, but you'll be able to feel it when you jack the engine up, then you slowly unscrew the bolt, thereby releasing the old engine mount from the car's unibody. It's a slow process with a small box end wrench. You do it by feel - or at least that's how I did it.
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  #34  
Old 02-19-2015, 08:32 PM
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When I stripped the Oil Cooler Nipple what I found was there was a piece of corroded Aluminum stuck into the threads of the Oil Cooler Hose Nut. It acted like a Tooth and cut up 3 of the threads.
The only method I have read that can prevent that entirely is to cut a groove down the length of the Nut and split the Nut apart. But, that ruines the Nut if you pan to use the Hose Ends.
In the Repair Links section is methods to try to avoid strupping the Oil Cooler Nipples.

Repair Links
Fast navigation Fast navigation Do It Yourself Links
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  #35  
Old 02-19-2015, 09:00 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceristimo View Post
@Skid Roe Joe

Thanks for the info. Honestly, the climate control is the least of my worries right now. When I had the selector on "cold", it did stop pumping out heat after like 10 minutes. I think the switch still works (it 'clicks' at maximum cold and hot too), but that the climate unit is not sensing the temperature correctly.

So, reading what Diesel911 said on the previous page, I just walked out and check the oil cooler hoses a bit better.
And, one of them is definitely showing signs of the power steering belt cutting into it. I guess I have a collapsed engine mount on the drivers side.

I'm hoping that will be fixable without an engine hoist? I have a jack, I do not have an engine hoist...

It seems that every time I make a list of parts to get and the order in which to repair things, something else pops up.

At first it was: replace all fluids and drive. Then it became: replace boot on rear axle, replace fluids and drive.
Then it became: replace rear axles, replace flex discs, replace fluids and drive.

And now my list is:
- replace engine mount
- replace oil cooler lines
-replace diesel return lines
- replace flex discs
- replace at least the drivers side axle. Passenger still looks good
- replace all fluids

I wonder how long my list will be come tomorrow...
There is plenty of writeups on the Motor Mount change and you don't need an Engine Hoist/Lift. The Engine can be lifted enough to remove the Motor Mounts with a thick Board and a Jack under the Oil Pan. However you need not to bottom the top of the Bell Housing on the Fire Wall. If you do that you start lifting the whole Car and risk cushing the Oil pan and cracking the Oil Pickup tube.
Even with a good Engine mount there is about 1" to 1-1/2" of empty space between the Bell Housing and the Fire Wall. Plenty to remove the Engine Mount.
For Motor Mounts Phoenix makes the Motor Mounts for the Mercedes Dealer (made in Turkey) and Lemförder/Lemfoerder/Lemforder apparenly gets them from Phoenix and grinds off the Mercedes Star. The
Lemförder/Lemfoerder/Lemforder Motor Mounts can be had at a lot of sellers and they are relativly inexpensive (The dealer wants like 5 times as much for them).
The Mercedes part number for the Motor Mount is 1232413013

Repair Links
Fast navigation http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/146034-fast-navigation-do-yourself-links.html

Inspect the Barke Hoses. Brake Hoses are something I repalce every time I buy a used Car because previous owners seldom do that. Also I have never bought a used Car that after inspecting it did not need a brake Job.

Brake Hoses are relativly cheap. Also while others dissagree I have found that even Wagner and other American Company Brake Hoses are made in China. I have the Chinese Hoses on all of My Cars with no issues. The Brake Hoses are a part that has to met DOT specs or then cannot be sold. So unlike a lot of other China parts I assume they are at least tested once in awhile by DOT. But, your choice there.

I think it took Me about 3 years to straighten out the Car to where it would be entirly reliable. During those 3 years the Car often sat unused in the Drive Way waiting for Parts, some special Tool or me to aquire the knowlege to do the job.

In order to remove the Front Rotors on this Car you need to remove the whole Hub and there is I think Allen Head Bolts inside you need to remove. That is straight Forward.
However, when I adjusted the end Play on the Hub as I had done with all of My Vehicles since 1968 I got it too tight and ended up overheating the Grease causing me to do the job over and adjust the End Play with a Dial Indicator just as the Manual Tells you to do. I have had zero issues with I adjust the Hub End Play with the Indicator.

Note if you ever have a rear Wheel Bearig issue it is a major job. Just taking the Hub off generally damages the Bearing.
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  #36  
Old 02-20-2015, 12:38 AM
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Posts: 9,652
Here is some pictures of the Oil Cooler line wrench I made.

Engine Oil Cooler Lines on a 126

Charlie
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3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

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  #37  
Old 02-20-2015, 01:54 PM
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Location: Alaska
Posts: 537
Guys, thanks so much for all this information! You're the best. All of you.

So, I'm going to order the first batch of parts this weekend, but I will run it by you guys before I hit the order button. I'm probably going to be ordering it from this website anyway.

So, the first job will be replacing the motor mounts and oil cooler lines. I figure I should also order an oil filter, with all the gaskets and the two little rubber rings for the oil filter housing while I'm at it.
And then I figure I might as well order an oil pan gasket, and drop the pan to replace the gasket, since a bunch of oil seems to be seeping from down there too. Although it's hard to see, the passenger side of the engine (and pretty much all suspension parts on that side) are covered in a layer of grease.

I figure I might as well try to replace the crank seal while I'm at it. I am expecting all of this to take me two full days, if nothing goes wrong.

Stripping the oil cooler nipples is making me a little paranoid, so I figure I'll start blasting the hell out of them with PB Blaster the week before I attempt my first time wrenching on the W123.

I have two jacks to support the engine with, so if one would decide to come down while it's holding the engine up, the other one should still be there as a safety back-up (provided there's enough space to have two jacks side-by-side I guess). I've had a jack come down unexpectedly once, and since then I never fully trust jacks in general anymore. The jack somehow lost pressure as I was getting my car off from the jack stands it was on. All that really happened is the car fell back on the stands with a loud BANG (it really only dropped like an inch or so), but it made me weary of all jacks... Nothing makes me as uncomfortable as having a car only held up by a jack, I just expect it to come crashing down at any moment... So supporting the engine by just a jack makes me a little queasy, but it should be OK.

I also finally for the first time traced the oil cooler lines all the way back to the oil filter housing, and I now finally understand why everyone says it's a horrible job... Can't say I'm looking forward to it, just want to get it over with.

I'm planning on doing this with the wheels on the ground, it seems to be there should be enough clearance to crawl underneath it with enough room to work, and the car on the ground would make jacking up the engine easier.

So, as parts I'll be ordering (for now):
-Oil cooler lines (upper and lower)
- motor mounts (there are two?...)
- Oil pan gasket
- Oil filter and gaskets (they seem to come in a kit)
- The two little rubber rings that go on the end of the ' stalk' on the oil filter housing
- Front crankshaft seal

I might just decide it's not worth the hassle and order the special tools instead of making them myself. That depends on how much the shipping is, but a bunch of wrenches should be able to get send through USPS, so that shouldn't be too bad.

Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to while I'm down there?

I plan on doing this the first weekend in March, I should have two full days of time to mess with this then.

Already keeping my fingers crossed I'll be able to pull this off without stripping the oil cooler nipples, that would SUCK....
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  #38  
Old 02-20-2015, 03:45 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Before you order, I would highly recommend you take a look at the manufacturers of parts and make sure you are getting good quality before you buy anything. Don't buy anything from Uro, unless you enjoy redoing your work.

Dkr.
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  #39  
Old 02-20-2015, 09:21 PM
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Location: Long Beach,CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceristimo View Post
Hi DRK. Thanks for the advice. I saw in a how-to that you need like an open-ended box wrench to loosen up the lines.
Do you know if that kind of wrench has a special name to it? I tried finding a place to get one, but I don't really know what to search for...
If you are speaking of the Oil Cooler Lines that wrench is made by cuting out part of the Box End of a regular Combination Wrench and it shorter on the handle end.

On the Oil Filter End of the Hose you may also need to thin the Head of the 24mm (recheck the size) Wrench you use as a back up to hold the fittings between the Oil Filter Housing and the Hose Nut to keep them from turning. That is extrmely important when you tigen the Hose.

But back to the special Wrench for the Oil Cooler Hose Nuts. I bought a cheapie 1-1/6" (functionally the same as 27mm) Combination Wrench but never had the heart to cut it up. I ended up buying the 1-1/6" Crows Foot in the picture. I use that with a short 1/2" Drive Extension on a Breaker Bar and it works fine.
This particular Crows Foot is and Armstrong USA made and is over 1/2" thick. I got it on eBay.

The Short Extension allows room for you to use the Crows Foot on the lower Oil Cooler Hose Nut.
On the Oil Filter End you can use a longer Extension go get at the Hose Nut closest to the Block on the Oil Filter End.
Attached Thumbnails
Just bought an '84 W123 300D Turbo-crows-foot-oil-cooler-hose-w123.jpg  
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  #40  
Old 02-20-2015, 09:38 PM
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Location: Long Beach,CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceristimo View Post
Guys, thanks so much for all this information! You're the best. All of you.

So, I'm going to order the first batch of parts this weekend, but I will run it by you guys before I hit the order button. I'm probably going to be ordering it from this website anyway.

So, the first job will be replacing the motor mounts and oil cooler lines. I figure I should also order an oil filter, with all the gaskets and the two little rubber rings for the oil filter housing while I'm at it.
And then I figure I might as well order an oil pan gasket, and drop the pan to replace the gasket, since a bunch of oil seems to be seeping from down there too. Although it's hard to see, the passenger side of the engine (and pretty much all suspension parts on that side) are covered in a layer of grease.

I figure I might as well try to replace the crank seal while I'm at it. I am expecting all of this to take me two full days, if nothing goes wrong.

Stripping the oil cooler nipples is making me a little paranoid, so I figure I'll start blasting the hell out of them with PB Blaster the week before I attempt my first time wrenching on the W123.

I have two jacks to support the engine with, so if one would decide to come down while it's holding the engine up, the other one should still be there as a safety back-up (provided there's enough space to have two jacks side-by-side I guess). I've had a jack come down unexpectedly once, and since then I never fully trust jacks in general anymore. The jack somehow lost pressure as I was getting my car off from the jack stands it was on. All that really happened is the car fell back on the stands with a loud BANG (it really only dropped like an inch or so), but it made me weary of all jacks... Nothing makes me as uncomfortable as having a car only held up by a jack, I just expect it to come crashing down at any moment... So supporting the engine by just a jack makes me a little queasy, but it should be OK.

I also finally for the first time traced the oil cooler lines all the way back to the oil filter housing, and I now finally understand why everyone says it's a horrible job... Can't say I'm looking forward to it, just want to get it over with.

I'm planning on doing this with the wheels on the ground, it seems to be there should be enough clearance to crawl underneath it with enough room to work, and the car on the ground would make jacking up the engine easier.

So, as parts I'll be ordering (for now):
-Oil cooler lines (upper and lower)
- motor mounts (there are two?...)
- Oil pan gasket
- Oil filter and gaskets (they seem to come in a kit)
- The two little rubber rings that go on the end of the ' stalk' on the oil filter housing
- Front crankshaft seal

I might just decide it's not worth the hassle and order the special tools instead of making them myself. That depends on how much the shipping is, but a bunch of wrenches should be able to get send through USPS, so that shouldn't be too bad.

Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to while I'm down there?

I plan on doing this the first weekend in March, I should have two full days of time to mess with this then.

Already keeping my fingers crossed I'll be able to pull this off without stripping the oil cooler nipples, that would SUCK....
There is a Mercedes authorized repair for the Stripped Nipples. If you take a look at where the Oil Cooler Hoses go into the Oil Filter Housing you see that there is a Fitting between the Hose and the Oil Filter Housing.
That is the Fitting used to make the Repair and they used to be $10 each and there is a Metal Crush Washer bhind that.

I did this repair and you need to cut the Nipple off Drill it and Tap it for the Fitting. If the Drilled Hole is not straight (I also did that) forget about the Crush Washer and degrease the internal and external Threads on the Fitting and coat the Fitting Threads with JB Weld Epoxy and screw it into the Oil Cooler and let it cure.
As it happens the Tap is an 18mm one that is the same as a 18mm Spark Plug Tap. The local hardware store had them for $14.
You are better off getting the reduced shank drill on the internet as they are more expensive then the tap at the Hardware store.
The details for the repair are in the Repair Links.
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  #41  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:39 PM
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Dont even consider getting under the car with only a hydraulic jack holding things up.
Jack stands, old wheels, 8x8's all work.

Speaking of work ... the steel or plastic ramps that places like harbor freight have work quite well. Solid Steel Auto Ramp Set

They also sell the larger end wrenches you need along with brand new allen sockets short and long you will need for the motor mounts. 5mm IIRC.
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1985 300D 198K sold
1982 300D 202K
1989 300E 125K
1992 940T

"If you dont have time to do it safely, you dont have time to do it"

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2015, 01:18 AM
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Location: Long Beach,CA
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It is resonably easy to use the Jack that comes with the Car for changing Tires to jack the Front up and put as the guysaid a 4x4 under the Wheels to raise the car a little. Put the Wood under both Fronts. Besure to block the Rear Wheels as the parking Brake Pals inside the Trans have been know to not be sturdy and you don't know the condition of the Parking Brake.

The Engine does not have to be lifted beyond what is needed to remove and re-install the Mounts.

Yes, Hydraulic Jacks are well know for suddenly giving up. Even the USA made ones back in the 1960s would occasionally do that. Even the Japanes made Jacks back then were more problematic.
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  #43  
Old 02-21-2015, 01:25 AM
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It is resonably easy to use the Jack that comes with the Car for changing Tires to jack the Front up and put as the guysaid a 4x4 under the Wheels to raise the car a little. Put the Wood under both Fronts. Besure to block the Rear Wheels as the parking Brake Pals inside the Trans have been know to not be sturdy and you don't know the condition of the Parking Brake.

The Engine does not have to be lifted beyond what is needed to remove and re-install the Mounts.

Yes, Hydraulic Jacks are well know for suddenly giving up. Even the USA made ones back in the 1960s would occasionally do that. Even the Japanes made Jacks back then were more problematic.
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  #44  
Old 02-21-2015, 04:33 PM
Skid Row Joe's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceristimo View Post
Guys, thanks so much for all this information! You're the best. All of you.

So, I'm going to order the first batch of parts this weekend, but I will run it by you guys before I hit the order button. I'm probably going to be ordering it from this website anyway.

So, the first job will be replacing the motor mounts and oil cooler lines. I figure I should also order an oil filter, with all the gaskets and the two little rubber rings for the oil filter housing while I'm at it.
And then I figure I might as well order an oil pan gasket, and drop the pan to replace the gasket, since a bunch of oil seems to be seeping from down there too. Although it's hard to see, the passenger side of the engine (and pretty much all suspension parts on that side) are covered in a layer of grease.

I figure I might as well try to replace the crank seal while I'm at it. I am expecting all of this to take me two full days, if nothing goes wrong.

Stripping the oil cooler nipples is making me a little paranoid, so I figure I'll start blasting the hell out of them with PB Blaster the week before I attempt my first time wrenching on the W123.

I have two jacks to support the engine with, so if one would decide to come down while it's holding the engine up, the other one should still be there as a safety back-up (provided there's enough space to have two jacks side-by-side I guess). I've had a jack come down unexpectedly once, and since then I never fully trust jacks in general anymore. The jack somehow lost pressure as I was getting my car off from the jack stands it was on. All that really happened is the car fell back on the stands with a loud BANG (it really only dropped like an inch or so), but it made me weary of all jacks... Nothing makes me as uncomfortable as having a car only held up by a jack, I just expect it to come crashing down at any moment... So supporting the engine by just a jack makes me a little queasy, but it should be OK.

I also finally for the first time traced the oil cooler lines all the way back to the oil filter housing, and I now finally understand why everyone says it's a horrible job... Can't say I'm looking forward to it, just want to get it over with.

I'm planning on doing this with the wheels on the ground, it seems to be there should be enough clearance to crawl underneath it with enough room to work, and the car on the ground would make jacking up the engine easier.

So, as parts I'll be ordering (for now):
-Oil cooler lines (upper and lower)
- motor mounts (there are two?...)
- Oil pan gasket
- Oil filter and gaskets (they seem to come in a kit)
- The two little rubber rings that go on the end of the ' stalk' on the oil filter housing
- Front crankshaft seal

I might just decide it's not worth the hassle and order the special tools instead of making them myself. That depends on how much the shipping is, but a bunch of wrenches should be able to get send through USPS, so that shouldn't be too bad.

Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to while I'm down there?

I plan on doing this the first weekend in March, I should have two full days of time to mess with this then.

Already keeping my fingers crossed I'll be able to pull this off without stripping the oil cooler nipples, that would SUCK....
You might consider passing over the big nut several times with a Bernzomatic blow torch to expand the nut.

You should be wary of the engine being safely lifted by most any lifting device. You may have learned a valuable lesson there.

For that reason, the hand-crank screwing of the pedestal tripod is the only safe way to do it. I would also trust a home garage situation of railroad ties, but that's the only fail-safe system for the home-garage crawling under there. I'm not all that trusting of jackstands, to be perfectly honest with you - and even then, I have dual jackstands at each location/quadrant of the vehicle, and the hydraulic jack lifted to their height as well supporting that quadrant.

It is also important to locate the jackstands or supporting device(s) where what they're supporting will not collapse. I'd much prefer a cross-member of the car's frame or transmission, rather than the oil pan as a lifting point for the engine.

Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 02-24-2015 at 04:33 AM.
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  #45  
Old 02-21-2015, 06:05 PM
ROLLGUY's Avatar
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Welcome to the forum from sunny So. Cal. Don't give up hope on this car, you will be happy with it when it is road worthy again (hopefully soon). For the oil cooler lines, I suggest just replacing the rubber portion. I have done it many times, and there is no need to even remove the entire line. I think I did a write-up years ago, but it is a fairly easy job. I cut the sleeves (below the PS pump) with a cutoff wheel on a small grinder (4 1/2"?), and then pry them off with a screwdriver. The other ends can be done out of the car clamped in a vice. When you are done removing the sleeves and the old hose, just use good quality stainless steel worm gear clamps to hold 5/8 hydraulic hose in place. There is not a lot of pressure in the hoses, but the hydraulic hose can handle more heat and pressure than the system will ever give. It is a lot easier in my opinion to just replace the worn out part, and not go through the added expense and labor to replace the entire hose assemblies. The added benefit is that should anything happen to these hoses, replacing them is very easy. If I can find the link, I will edit it in.....Rich

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