Just bought an '84 W123 300D Turbo
 

I wrote a really, really, really long post with a lengthy introduction about my car history, but unfortunately it didn't post right. Only about 15% of the text showed up. A moderator kindly removed it.

So to recap my whole introduction:
I grew up on the back seat of a white W123 non turbo, 300D (blue interior), and have since always longed to own one. I have pictures of the one my dad had in the '80's (it was a 1984 W123). Here is one that was taken in '89, when the car was 5 years old and stranded in Berlin, because the oil gauge started leaking.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ed-medium-.jpg
I grew up in the Netherlands, immigrated to the US a few years ago and currently live in Alaska.

Do I *need* a W123? No, we currently have two good, dependable cars. Do I want one? God, yes.

So, after having searched Craigslist for a long, long time, I finally found a W123 for sale. After a little bit of nagging I got my lovely wife to agree and allow me to buy it, without having to sell the Mazda. Her thing has always been: You can buy an old Mercedes, but you gotta sell the Mazda.
Well, can't do that, because Fairbanks in winter means temperatures getting down to -45F (-42C) and a rear-wheel drive vehicle on these roads is a terrible idea at best.
But, like I said, I finally got her to agree with the idea of a hobby/summer car kind of thing.

The one problem was: The car was in Anchorage. We are in Fairbanks. Distance between the two cities is about 350 miles, with nothing in between. There is one road connecting the two places, and breaking down somewhere in the middle will leave you stranded until someone else would pass you by. No cell phone reception for long stretches also means that help can be very far away.

Anyway, I contacted the seller, made an appointment to see him on the 14th of February, and suggested to my wife that we'd spend Valentines day at a hotel in Anchorage. You know, to just 'get away', for a weekend...

So, off to Anchorage we went, in my wife's Camry that has about as much character to it as my dish washer.

The drive takes 6 hours on a good day, more when you do it in winter on bad roads.

Anyway, when we finally got there I drove to the address where the Benz was and saw it in real life for the first time.

I was madly in love from the start. It's white. It has a blue interior. It's a diesel. Sure, it has a few blemishes on the exterior here and there, but what 31-year old survivor wouldn't?

I took it out for a test drive and found myself slightly disappointed. The steering was....well, very loose. The seats are....very saggy. A piece of wood trim in the interior is coming off.
During my test drive the car seemed to shift well, and the engine - to me at least - sounded healthy. It does however leak oil, but at the time (yesterday, in fact) I wasn't too concerned with that.
The previous owner did a valve adjustment and would include the two 90-degree bend wrenches to do the adjustment in the future.

So, I walked around it once more, checked for rust (nothing obvious, this is an Alaskan car, and it's quite dry up here with no salt being used) and bought it...

The price was a point of negotiation. Not much is known of this car. No documentation exists up to 2005, where the previous-previous owner bought it for 5000 dollars. The bill of sale and the contract with the payments is still in the glove box. They daily-drove it.
The guy that I bought it from bought it in 2013 for 2800 dollars. He daily-drove it. So it looks like it has been a daily driver for pretty much all of it's 31 years. The 270.000 miles on the odometer seem to support that.

Ultimately I was able to exchange 1550 dollars for the keys to the Benz. Not too bad I guess.

But I was still in Anchorage, standing in this guys' driveway. And I needed the car 350 miles north, in Fairbanks.

So, I did the sensible thing. I took some pictures, fired up the diesel, and started driving.
Here's the Benz I bought. I'm calling her Betsie:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424230997
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424230997
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424230997


So, the first hour or so, everything was fine. We were getting close to Wasillla (pretty much the last town you hit before the 300 miles or so to Fairbanks), and that's where I started noticing the power steering getting a little whiny.

I pulled over, checked the PS reservoir and realized it was completely empty. Probably has been for some time too.
With nothing at hand, except for a quart of Dextron ATF in the trunk of the Toyota, that's what I topped it off with. I guessed that the line inside the reservoir would be the max line, but since I wasn't sure I filled it up to a little underneath it.
I then also checked the ATF fluid, and realized it was running low. The dip stick is tremendously hard to read, and I don't know how to properly check an automatic transmission. Never worked on them before. I remember from a friend that he would shift the tranny through all gears, wait a bit and then check. So, that's what I did, and it looked way low on the dip stick.

We drove around Wasilla in the Toyota for a bit, found a car parts store and I bought some Dextron III tranny fluid. I topped it off till a tiny bit above the first line on the stick, which I assume to be minimum and drove on.

During my lengthy drive I realized the Benz has several issues. The automatic climate control is erratic. It turns the fanspeed up and down whenever it feels like it, and I can't seem to get cold air no matter what I do. The vent selection also sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't.

Bummer.

I also noticed that the transmission shifts late. It doesn't wait until you hit maximum RPM, but it certainly shifts a bit late. I found I can "manually"shift it by letting up on the throttle when I want it to shift. It'll shift up when I resume the throttle.

These are, as far as I understand, all vacuum related issues. Also, the locks are non functional. Not a single lock on the car works, and I blame myself for NOT checking that when I bought it. I thought I had done quite an extensive test drive and checked it quite thoroughly, but I guess I wasn't...I was mainly checking for structural rust problems, and the car being parked in a snowy drive way didn't make crawling underneath it any easier. By the time I was done with that and checked the engine etc, I failed to check the power locks. The rear doors cannot even manually be locked, since the door lock button on one is missing, and the other is half broken off.
Stupid. Oh well.

Anyway, I got the car safely home, and parked it in my heated garage.

And now - a day later - I have an "oh crap, what did I do" kinda feeling. Upon closer inspection the car seems to be leaking oil from pretty much everywhere.
It can't be leaking much, since the oil level on the dip stick is the same as it was when I took off roughly 400 miles ago, but it seems the whole engine is wet with oil. It's everywhere, and makes figuring out WHERE it leaks kind of hard.
The injectors all seem to weep diesel, and the vacuum system is shot. The car does turn off without a problem, so parts of it work.
The interior is kinda "meh", the seats are terrible, the steering is wonky and the whole car gives an impression of being old and tired. Kinda like how I feel at the moment.

So, here is my plan:
- I never intended for this Mercedes to replace my daily driver. The W123 is supposed to be my fun project car.
- I don't intend for this car to get to show room condition. I feel it's too far gone for that, but I do not believe this one has entered parts-car territory yet.
- I do intend to drive this during our (short) summer months. That gives me a rough 2.5 months to get this thing into better shape.

So, my first step - and I've given myself a month to do this - is to replace all fluid. I will not drive this thing another mile before the oil, tranny fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid and rear-diff fluid have been changed. God knows how long those have been in there.
I will probably open another topic on how to do the gear box, since I've never done that.

My second step is to take the second month and inspect other important parts. These would be inspecting (and most likely replacing) the flex discs, and trying to at least partially sort out the vacuum system. I'd like to be able to lock my doors, but if I cannot get that to work before summer, I'll drive it without the locks.
I do want the climate control to stop pumping out heat, so I'll need some advise and trouble-shooting on that. I'll make a topic about it when I get to it, and will make sure to buy a mity vac before I attempt to work on the vacuum.

I would also like to at least be able to determine whether the oil leak is harmful or not. An oil leak in itself doesn't worry me too much. Heck, all three of my old Citroëns used to leak oil.

But with a diesel I get paranoid about the whole 'run-away diesel' thing, so a diesel engine covered in a film of grease makes me a little scared.

I will try to post some better pics of this car soon, especially the state of the engine and such.

Whatever it turns out to be - and maybe this will be a huge money pit for which I don't simply have the budget - the one thing that will never be taken away from me is that one time I drove an old and tired white W123 with blue interior 350 miles home on icy roads, in the pitch black dark with terrible head lights.

Because last night truly was an adventure that I will never regret.

P.S. It's been two days since I have it, and I haven't it driven since, but did some generally inspection. The car is in much worse shape then I thought, and I'm slowly starting to developer buyers remorse.
The engine seems to leak pretty much everywhere. The injectors (all of them) seem to leak diesel.
There's a torn CV-boot on the left rear axle. The rear flex disc seems to be OK, but I haven't been able to check the front one yet. I haven't jacked it up or put it on ramps yet.
It's just been sitting in my garage since Sunday, while I'm slowly trying to figure out what needs to be done.

I don't think I will be able to daily-drive this in summer. I'm disappointed, to say the least...:(

WELCOME to the forum!
sorry about the trouble with your first post!
ok, the oil leaks are troublesome, but most are fairly simple to remedy.
the injectors have small rubber return lines that when old, seep fuel and look like the injectors are leaking. a few bucks worth of return line (1/8"~3mm) hose, will fix that right up.
the flex discs are CRITICAL to have new with lemforder/phonex brand only! and they gotta be changed.
the axle boots are not a terrible difficulty to repair. you can rent the tool that stretches new boots over the axle, or order a set already rebooted (from me!) or buy a set of remans from CVJ in denver, or have them rebuild your set, or order PRICY new axles from here or the MB dealer, or the auto parts stores sell a cheap new axle that has been reported to have issues... but they are cheap!

I liked the original post with all the backstory. oh well.

Hi Vstech. It's funny we're finally talking, because I was following your "the misadventures of a rednecks frontyard" topic years ago as the story was developing. Back then I looked at the pictures of all the Benzes in your yard and thought: Boy, I'd really love to have one of those.

And now I do own one... :)

I liked my original post too. Took me 2.5 hours to write it, but the forum won't let me include all the pictures, and keeps complaining that the post is about 5000 characters over maximum lenght. So I cut the first half off, and posted the rest... :)

I'll go out into my garage with my camera and will shoot some pictures. Those pictures will come out terrible, since my garage barely has any lighting - so these will all be pictures taken with the flash - but hopefully it will give all of you a better idea of the shape of this car.

Also, I don't think a W123 is supposed to hang low from the back, is it?...The shocks don't seem to be soft, so I'm wondering why it looks like I have a person in the trunk. I checked. There is no person in the trunk...

"With nothing at hand, except for a quart of Dextron ATF" That is what it is suppposed to use as does the Transmission.

The Auto Trans Fluid check is the same as other Vehicles. With the Car sitting on a flat surface you either check it with the Engine runing and the Fluid Cold (most people seem to do that at the first startup in the morning) or check it after the Trans Fluid and Engine are up to temp and use the hot level on the Dip Stick.
What your friend was doing sounds more like what to do after you change the ATF and the AT Filter.

I am impressed that the car made it the whole 350 miles with no major issues. Lots of people have well maintained Cars and take it on a long trip and have issues.

If the Engine Oil is leaking from the Rear Main Seal you need to pull the Engine to replace that. But, that is not the most common area of Oil Leaks. Typical Oil leak areas are the Valve Cover Gasket, the Turbo Draing Tube Grommet, the Front Crank Seal followed by the Oil Filter Housing to Block Gasket.
Depending on the Type of Air Filter you have there is a Drain Tube an Oil Drain Tube coming off of it that goes down behind the Turbocharger Drain. Those Tubes are often loose or sometimes develop a crack in the Metal Tab that bolts it to the Turbo Support Bracket under the Turbo.

If your Oil Cooler Hoses are showing any signs of leaking replace them. A few People have lost their Engines due to Oil Starvation when the Oil Cooler Hose leaked off too much Oil while they were driving.
Unfotunately removing the Oil Cooler Hose from the Oil Cooler often results in a Stripped Oil Cooler Nipple (it happend to me). There is a reapair for that.

Hunter took the time to organize the more useful Threads in the Fouorm so it is easier to find a repair Repair Links.
Fast navigation http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/146034-fast-navigation-do-yourself-links.html

Check your Motor Mounts. When the Driverside one collaspes the Power Steering Belt sometimes cuts into the Oil Cooler Hose.

1550 dollars is not too much to pay. I thought that the wage up there was higer then in the lower 48 States. if so $1550 is not much.

You said it was a hobby Car. I think you thought that the Hobby was driving the Car but actually the Hobby is fixing the Car.

@Hi Diesel911
Cost of living here is also much higher then the lower 48, so it equals out. I am not rich by any means :)

It is indeed supposed to be a hobby car, but I was hoping be able to drive it, while fixing it bit by bit. It doesn't appear that that will be the case.

Here are some more pictures I just took a minute ago:

Engine:

General state of the engine bay:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424235702

Injectors. Hard to see on the pictures how black and greasy all of that is:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424235702

Breather tube shows signs of oil, as does the other end that goes into the air filter housing:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424235702

There is however virtually no blowby on this engine.

One of the radiator clips is missing. I did not notice this when I bought it, and I failed to notice this every time I pulled over during the drive to check the fluids etc...Not sure if I lost it on the drive or what, but the radiator has cut a groove in one of the cooler hoses. That could've gone very wrong...
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424235702

Are these the oil cooler lines? If so, they look pretty wet... :(

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424235702

Again, the whole engine is covered in a greasy film, which is hard to show on these bad pictures.

The more I think about it, the more I realize how stupid it was to drive this car for such a long distance...

Next post will have some pics of the interior.

The interior:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236096

Close up of the worn-out seats:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236096

Center console and dash:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236096
The facia (for lack of a better word) on the right side of the dash is completely loose and makes opening and closing the glove box nearly impossible.

Here's a pic of the instrument cluster. The dimmer works, but the lights are so dim you can not read the odometer in the dark. The dials are visible in the dark. All lights work. The tachometer is dead. Clock works!
Temp during my road trip was between 80 and the line above it (so I guess around 90). It would go down a little during lengthy downhill stretches, but remain at 90 during the lengthy uphill stretches.
Oil pressure is pegged at anything above idle. At idle it's a little below 2.

And what's up with those dead spiders in there (there's one right below the clock)? I seem to remember my dads W123 had one of those white spider things in there too? Is that a common thing? :P

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236096

The back seats:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236096

Some more pictures:

This is what I found in the trunk:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236403

All tires severely dry rotted and not to be used anymore. Having the 4 extra bundt style wheels is nice I guess. If you count the spare in the trunk, I have 9 of those rims total now...:rolleyes:

And here's the torn boot on the driver side rear axle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1424236403

The boots on the other end look OK at first glance.

The torn CV doesn't make any noise (yet), as far as I can tell. So I'm hoping I can get away with cleaning it and packing it with grease, and replacing the boot.

I've done that a hand full of times on my front-wheel drive Citroens back in Holland. On that car it was easy with an extra helper. Basically pull the axle out of the transmission and get it on a work bench. Cut off the old boot. Use a plastic cone, grease it up, pull new boot over cone onto axle, pack with grease, clamp and done. Well, and refilling the transmission...

It would still take 2.5 hours or so, but it wasn't very hard. Just a pita.

I think on the Benz you have to open up the read-diff to get the axle out, so that process will be much more involved.
Also, my Citroens weighed about 1500 pounds and I had no problems jacking it up.
The Benz however weighs a lot more...

I have a 2 1/4 ton floor jack (probably not the best quality) that has a maximum height of 15 1/2". Would that be enough to get the wheels of the ground and the car on jack stands?

I currently have 2 ton jack stands, but I would like to get some beefier ones before I jack the Benz up. The 2 ton's can be used as backup.

And I'll shove those rims that were in the trunk underneath it too. I'd much rather damage the car then squash my body when it's underneath it.

I like the 6 ton jackstands personally... the little ones don't seem stable enough for me.
if you are going to cone stretch the boot over, just clean it REALLY WELL, and pop off the outer side of the axle, and slide the boot over it. then put it back. no need to pull the inner stub to change just the boot.

as for the rear sag. it's possible it's sagging, from mounts, etc... but more likely, it simply appears to be sagging. the wheel arches are lower in the rear than the front.

@Vstech
The couple of times I did this on much smaller axles, it still required quite a lot of force to get the boot pulled all the way over the cone. I don't see how you can pull hard enough if the other end of the axle is still in the diff and you're doing it underneath the car?


Or I might just not understand what you mean correctly?

It sounds like everything you described is an age-related issue and you probably have a decent car at the core. Everyone with a 30-year old W123 is going to have to tackle these issues. Either the PO did it or you DIY or you pay a mechanic. But, they do seem to be the normal issues and they tend to be rather predictable with this car.

Welcome to the forum.

Dkr.

Welcome to the forum! While your experience in Berlin may have given you some distrust on these old cars, I do not know a better vehicle to trust my life with. $1550 is a great price for a running/driving/stopping example; my wagons were $1200 and $1499 and they also needed their share of things.

All the problems you mention are easy fixes, as long as you have the patience to address them. You will find lots of tutorials here on things like the vacuum system, adjusting your transmission, replacing CV boots, etc.

The best thing to do is to give it a good cleaning (de-greasing, vacuuming) and start from there. Then, on to it!
—Tutorial on CV boots: HERE.
—Tutorial on vacuum locks: HERE.
—Tutorian on replacing seat skin and reinforcing springs: HERE.
—OM617 crank seal replacement: HERE.
—Oil cooler lines (assuming you buy a new set, although you can also get them rebuilt): HERE

Once again, welcome. We are glad you are here! :)

Do your self a huge favor and get 2 LED spot lights. Id suggest a 10 or 20 watt, one using 120VAC and one 12VDC.

Haunt ebay for the misc tools you want/need. Mityvacs can be had for $10.

A great starting point is .... http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/365137-300d-e-proper-fuses.html

And... for a new to Benz guys .. remember.. the only stupid question is the one you dont ask.

I think it is at least 2 people have said they used a split Axle Boot but it is not well documented and this if from My Notes;

"Okay I looked today to refresh my memory I replaced both my inner joints with the speedi-boot 03606 (the reason 03606 is not in their catalog anymore is because it's been replaced by 03608) it is a boot that is bolted together I have never used any that are glued I have had very good results with the bolted ones use them on a variety of cars. What you have to do 1st off is measure the axle diameter on both ends you have to cover and find one that exactly or closely fits. The m.b. inner joint measures 70mm×26mm the 03606 measures 75mm×24mm so you see it was a little big on one end and little small on other I made it fit and both are holding up couple of yrs. now. I used grease inside. Maybe if enough people would write the company dorman they would start making an exact fit for the m.b.s as Im sure they would sell a lot of them with all these old cars on the road yet. I m sure not everyone would not like the repair I made that is your choice it worked for me and saved me a lot in time and money. The main thing with the axle joints is to keep them protected and lubed."

When I did mine I stretched the Boots over the can but I had Tools for that. I have a thread if you want to look.

The original Axles are filled with something similar to Differential Oil. When the Boot cracks enough the lube leaks out. So it is likely you drove 350 miles with little or no lube. That means the Alxle may or may not be no good.

While the split Boot would allow you to do it on the Vehicle having the Axle on the Vehicle does not lend itself well cleaning out anything that might have gotten inside of the CV Joint. I did a different Vehicle on the Car but I had a Solvent Sprayer and I bought a can of Solvent and hosed the CV Joint out good.

If you pan to change the Differential Fluid besure to remove the Fill Plug first as they can be extremely hard to remove.

If you decide to remove the Rear Axle to take care of the Boot you need to remove the back cover of the Differential and there is a C-clip you pull out to release the Axle. All that info is in the Repair Links including re-booting the Axles.

Note that the Asian Made Aftermarket Axles have quality control issues.

@Delibes
Thanks for the links to all those tutorials. They will come in handy!

@TnBob
Thanks for the link to the fuses :)

@Diesel911
That's an interesting boot. Never seen one like that before, that bolts shut. Did some quick Googling, and it looks like Amazon.com is even still selling those.

I think you are right, and I probably drove 350 miles on muddy roads with a torn boot. I wouldn't even be surprised if the PO drove hundred - if not thousands - of miles with the torn boot.

The boot is completely in half. So, even though the axle is not making any noise yet, I think my best bet would be to replace it.

That will also be Betsie's first 'operation'. I found a tutorial on how to replace the axle, and from what I've seen it does not look all too complicated. Since I wanted to replace the diff fluid anyway, I might as well kill 2 birds with one stone and open it up and replace the axle.

So, the problem is that I live in Alaska and there is no Mercedes dealer where I live. There is a dealer in Anchorage, but that is 350 miles away.

So, going to the Mercedes dealer for anything is out of the question.

Second problem: No junk yards here either. At least none of the "U-pull-it" kind. Besides, no junk yards here would have any W123's, since there barely aren't any up here to begin with.

Which means that as far as parts are concerned, my best bet is to either get them from the chain auto-part stores (with shipping taking about 4 weeks) , or to order them online somewhere. The latter would mean outrageous shipping costs.

Anyway, I did some quick calling around this afternoon, and I can get rebuild axles for the W123.
They would run me 120 bucks a piece (well, 190, but there's a 70 dollar core) , no extra shipping cost, and take 3-4 weeks to get here.

I can order an axle that is either 26 1/16" or 24 13/16" in length. I guess I'll have to measure the old one first to figure out what I need, unless someone here would know what the axle length on a '84 300d turbo is?


Now, the right axle doesn't have torn boots and isn't leaking from what I've seen, so I'm hoping to be able to get away with putting a fresh boot on that one. Unless the boots still look fine, in which case I would just leave it.

As of now I still haven't had the car on ramps, and still haven't made a closer inspection on all the parts that need replacing. I'm hoping to be able to remedy that tonight when I'm home. I'll post some more pics when I get to that :)

EDIT:
Man, this forum is awesome. I love all of you guys already. I did some quick searching and found this topic:
W123 CV Axle Lengths.

According to Vstech:
I guess I'll be ordering the 24 13/16".