Right 3.5L head for my 3.0L OM603? :) - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sixto · #16 03-09-2015, 03:28 AM

I remember the visible rim of a vertical prechamber was marked with "60" or "09"

Sixto
MB-less

Vilnis · #17 03-10-2015, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHappy

the #15 head is a turbo head so at least the prechambers from any other turbo heads will fit the 15 mm bores but the difference between vertical and inclined would have to be addressed if that is what is available.

looking at the two pictures of his original injectors there is nothing in those pictures that would lead me to assume that it was inclined injection in that #15 head, there are no plastic rings that are originally installed in the inclined installations, and the part of the prechamber lock ring that can be seen doesn't look like the serrated/splined prechamber lock rings either. A good look/picture of the lock ring would help for sure.

There are no pictures of #15 head. It is new #20 head. And as I mentioned lock rings are missing (at least seller said that).

Vilnis · #18 03-10-2015, 09:12 AM

I will try to find any numbers on prechambers today. Will make best photos I can.

Vilnis · #19 03-10-2015, 09:19 AM

Everybody mentions machining head/chambers to fit injectors, but I haven't found any info on what exactly is done. Can somebody explain?

Most interesting question for the moment is - are these modifications backward compatible? Can new prechambers be fitted on the head that uses old prechambers?

mytmousemalibu · #20 03-10-2015, 02:41 PM

Oh, tossing in a prechamber pic I came across

sixto · #21 03-10-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytmousemalibu

Oh, tossing in a prechamber pic I came across

Interesting. I've never seen that many digits on a prechamber rim, only 2 digits. It must have been [601.] 09 that I remember.

Sixto
MB-less

Vilnis · #22 03-10-2015, 06:53 PM

Closest and cleanest pictures that I can get:
http://1drv.ms/1KTe8VN
I don't see any numbers. Maybe there is some washer above prechamber, however I couldn't pull it out.

So what is being touched/machined to switch from one type to another -
head or prechambers?

If it is only prechambers - can I just put prechambers from my old cylinder head, regardless of what I have in this new head (one that is being photographed)?

sixto · #23 03-11-2015, 02:05 PM

The second picture above captioned Modified OE shows a vertical prechamber milled to fit in a later head casting.

In the second picture in your album, it appears the inner threads are canted towards the adjacent head bolt location. That tells me it's an inclined prechamber. Sixto's rule of thumb - if you can't remove the head bolt with the inejctor in place, it's inclined injection. If you have an injector for inclined prechambers, thread it into this prechamber and see if you can insert and remove the appropriate length head bolt. Or if it simply leans towards the radiator.

Sixto
MB-less

Maxbumpo · #24 03-11-2015, 03:16 PM

Here are some pictures of inclined and non-inclined injectors. Note the difference in location of the threads at the bottom of the body.

The innards are the same, the nozzle holder bodies are different.

Note that if you have to install pre-chambers, there is a seal below the pre-chamber that must be replaced.

Maxbumpo · #25 03-11-2015, 03:17 PM

The pre-chamber pictures of the #20 head in the original post seem to be for inclined injectors to me.

mytmousemalibu · #26 03-11-2015, 03:22 PM

I know on my 606.962 PC's they say 606/08 on the top flange, and those are unmistakably inclined. The marking on them is very faint, its not ink but not really electropenciled or stamped. If you scrub with a scotch-brite much at all its gone.

HappyHappy · #27 03-11-2015, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

Note that if you have to install pre-chambers, there is a seal below the pre-chamber that must be replaced.

For 602 and 603 engines? The only thing that seems like it might be what you're referring to is the "Seal Ring, Repair size" that is listed for 603 engines. These are available in a couple if thicknesses a MM or less, and are used AFTER the cylinder head has been machined to alter the depth the prechamber protrudes into the combustion chamber because the cylinder head's overall height has been reduced by having it machined flat and true
.

These are not so much "seals" but are corrective spacers, they are usually used after modifying "refinishing" the cylinder head's prechamber bore depth. This procedure is detailed in the factory engine manual 01-410, it possibly requires the special cutter #601 589 00 66 00 ( about $650), the seal ring/spacers are available as 0.3, 0.6 and 1.0 mm and are quite expensive and only available from MB as far as I know.

601 017 04 60 = 0.3 mm, 601 017 02 60 = 0.6 mm, 601 017 03 60 = 1.0mm

Maxbumpo · #28 03-12-2015, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHappy

For 602 and 603 engines? The only thing that seems like it might be what you're referring to is the "Seal Ring, Repair size" that is listed for 603 engines. These are available in a couple if thicknesses a MM or less, and are used AFTER the cylinder head has been machined to alter the depth the prechamber protrudes into the combustion chamber because the cylinder head's overall height has been reduced by having it machined flat and true
.

These are not so much "seals" but are corrective spacers, they are usually used after modifying "refinishing" the cylinder head's prechamber bore depth. This procedure is detailed in the factory engine manual 01-410, it possibly requires the special cutter #601 589 00 66 00 ( about $650), the seal ring/spacers are available as 0.3, 0.6 and 1.0 mm and are quite expensive and only available from MB as far as I know.

601 017 04 60 = 0.3 mm, 601 017 02 60 = 0.6 mm, 601 017 03 60 = 1.0mm

Doh!!!

Guess I should have read the FSM a little more closely. I pulled the pre-chambers from a head I was sending to be recycled, it had the seal rings. I also remember others telling of sealing problems after installing pre-chambers, had to resolve with the repair seal.

Vilnis · #29 03-13-2015, 04:15 AM

Thank You all, You cleared the situation for me.
Will disassemble and wash the head this weekend and give it to master for tests. Hope that everything is needed is valve matching and sealing so I don't need any rings under my prechambers.