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  #1  
Old 04-26-2002, 07:41 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Posts: 65
Unhappy Mechanic says "cluster bearings in transmission are nearly shot" (4spd)

:-(

Well, some of you might remember that approx 3 weeks ago, i purchased a 1981 240d in great shape..i mentioned that i had heard a "rolling noise" and I got alot of good feedback, with the majority of people thinking that if anything, it would likely be something driveshaft/rear end related.. I took my car to "MBI Motors" here in Portland - they are a very-highly recommended independant MB shop. The diagnosis is, in the mechanic's opinion, is that the "cluster bearings" are going.. Now, my car makes this rolling/"bearing"-type noise when under load, be it in reverse gear or only gears 1-3. 4th does not exhibit the sound(my car is a manual, 4spd transmission, btw).. The unfortunate news is that to have the trans overhauled, which i believe would be the only way to save the transmission, per the mechanic's advise, would cost approx $800.. is this reasonable to pay, for this type of repair? I wish there was some cheaper solution!.... The car still shifts and drives *fine*, but the noise is there.. i dont know how long i shoud be able to drive the car as-is..? any ideas?? thanks so much guys,

Miles
81 240d 4spd (Silver)

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  #2  
Old 04-26-2002, 08:54 PM
turbodiesel
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I say, drive till it drops, then get the gearbox rebuilt. I wouldn't do it now, it may last a very long time as it is.
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2002, 08:56 PM
turbodiesel
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A good example would be with MB automatic trannies. RARELY do they just die. They will give warning signs for tens of thousands of miles before they refuse to move anymore. Same with the engines.

The auto trannies will start flaring, then slipping, then shifting late, from the time you first feel the symptoms, to the time it dies is probably 50K miles.
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2002, 09:59 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
Miles81_240D,

The only thing I can think of that may have contributed to the early demise of your manual transmission is neglect. Someone must have driven it for a long time without changing fluid, or with too little, or no, fluid. I would put some new, RedLine HD Manual Transmission Lubricant in the machine and see how long it lasts. At the very least you will slow down the rate of degradation a little. It may be enough to make the car last as long as you originally thought it would. I have yet to see one of these transmissions fail, but I have also never let one run dry or with seriously degraded fluid. Good luck, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2002, 01:02 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bellevue, WA USA
Posts: 84
JimSmith, which Redline manual transmission oil do you use for the 4speed manual? I see three listed on the Racer Parts (Redline vendor) webpage:

75W/80W GL-4 man trans lube (RD50204)
75W90 GL-4 man trans lube (RD50304)
75W90NS gear oil (RD58304)

Thanks.

1983 240D 4 sp manual 150K
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2002, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
John,

I use the RedLine MT-90. It is a fully synthetic lubricant with additives to reduce corrosion and wear on synchros. The other gear lubes they offer do not have the friction modifiers for reducing wear and tear on synchros, and I use them in my differentials (actually I use their "Shockproof" gear oil in my differentials because it really quieted down my 190E 2.3-16 when it started to whine at 65 mph under even/light loads after 200,000 miles). The MT-90 and MTL products are designed specifically for manual transmissions. Before the MT-90 came out, I used the MTL product (since the mid to late 80's). Both are excellent so far. For a ball bearing noise you might want a formula to help avoid ball skidding and the damage that causes, which is why I suggested the RedLine MTL or MT-90 in my earlier post. The same friction modifiers that help with the synchros should help avoid ball skidding. Check the RedLine website (www.redlineoil.com) for a dealer and the range of products. I stopped buying directly from them when I found they had dealers within half an hour of me and was astounded by the growth in the range of products they offer compared to some 80's brochures they sent me. I regularly use their Diesel fuel treatment, WaterWetter, and gas car fuel injection system cleaner. I am in no way affiliated with RedLine Oil Co., just a satisfied customer.

Hope this helps, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2002, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Posts: 502
Tranny problems

Miles,

Since one can get used trannys in my local for $62.00 if you remove them yourself, why not just pick up an extra and replace the bearings yourself. It's not a major problem, as you don't have to remove the gears and shafts to replace the main bearings. Then you've an extra when needed.
Ben
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2002, 12:50 PM
HGV HGV is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 424
Does the 81 240D use gear oil or ATF? Make sure you use the correct fluid. I remember my 69 220D used ATF in the manual tranny and not gear oil. I agree with everyone else, drive until it becomes a problem. I rebuilt my tranny once, but I was never able to get it to shift as smoothly as the original. I finally broke down and bought a factory rebuilt.

Henry
__________________
63 190d (sold)
69 220D (sold)
69 280SL (sold)
76 BMW 2002 (sold)
86 190E-16v (Demised at Laguna Seca Turn 9)
87 300SDL (sold)
87 300SDL 135k
87 300TD 280k (sold)
95 E320W 211k
95 E320w 111k
05 C320 4matic
06 E320 CDI 90k (Totaled by a texting 19 year old girl in a nissan)
2013 GLK 250 Bluetek 4MATIC
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2002, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
The reason you hear the noise in 1-3 and not fourth is that the cluster gears aren't loaded in fourth -- they just ride on the shaft.

If you are getting noise, it is time to repair or replace -- they go fast once they start grinding away in there.

I'd try to dig up a replacement -- should be much less than $800. Don't try to do the rebuild yourself unless you understand gear mesh and proper adjustments thereof, or you will end up with a difficult to shift and noisy transmission. Replacing the cluster bearings (the bearings in the gearset itself, not the shaft main bearings) requires completely stripping the gears off the shafts. You will need the proper measuring equipment and lots of shims to get them to mesh properly upon reassembly -- alas, not trivial.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2002, 02:01 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bellevue, WA USA
Posts: 84
Henry,
My manual says ATF but many have had very good luck with gear oils, specifically those made for manual transmissions.

Jim,
Thanks for the advise on Redline MT-90, I've ordered some to put in my transmission.

1983 240D 4sp manual

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