Introductory Thread: 1984 W123 300D Auto w/ rare factory extras + political history
 

Hi There!

Thought I'd say hello and share a bit about my pride n joy! (Pictures coming soon)

CAR:

RHD UK Registered 1984 300D Automatic Sedan with MB Tex Tan Interior, Golden Beige Exterior, Self Leveling suspension, Electric Fan, Oil Sump guard, Sunroof and Air Conditioning. Remarkably, the car has no rust anywhere despite having spent all its life here in the UK

Since purchase, I've ordered the following OEM Genuine parts:

1) Door Scraper Seals
2) Hood Insulation
3) Sunroof Scraper Seals
4) Replacement Leather Steering Wheel (off a W126)

Other treatments include

a) Waxoyl the rust prone areas in the hopes that she will stay the way she is.
b) Auto Rx treatment mixed with the engine oil to clean the motor's internals.
c) Stanadyne diesel fuel additive to clean the fuel system.

HISTORY

When I asked the previous owner about the history of the car, I was told that it was originally special ordered in 1984 for the President of India, Mira Gandhi before she died.

I didn't understand who he was referring to as India never had a President named Mira Gandhi . . .and then it clicked. The car was ordered for the Prime Minister of India, Indira Gandhi who was assassinated in 1984, just after the car was built. The administration cancelled the order and it never left Europe for India, going instead to the 1st owner, who cared for it for next 20 years.

When you look at the date of registration and the unique factory options that would better equip the car for India, the story matches up. I even wrote a letter to the car's 2nd owner, the 1st owners mechanic, who corroborated the exact same story.

QUESTIONS

1) Outside of the usual oil/ filter change, are there any other parts I need to change on the car given its age, condition and relatively unknown service history? Any treatments recommended? Sunroof service perhaps?

2) Would Mercedes Benz be able to furnish any proof to also corroborate the car's history? e.g. a purchase order from India ?

Sounds really interesting. Some pictures would be nice. A 20 year old car probably has some dry and rotted rubber suspension components so I would look those over too. I bought a '95 e class with only 156,000 miles and had to replace things like center drag link, control arm and several bushings that were toast. You don't say where you are located but find a mb dealer and have them look it over if you want to save it good shape.

In London, dealers typically have younger technicians working on newer cars. While the W123 may be relatively simply for them, I'm concerned that many of them may never have worked on this platform before. I'd hate for them to learn on mine. But I take your point and will probably have to find a local specialist that has changed rubber mounts before. Any recommendations in the greater London area welcome as are other problem areas to look for potential trouble?

Here are some pictures:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...123-3owibc.jpg

WOW! Very Nice!

Thought I'd follow up with the following updates and pictures. (Any advice is more than welcome)

I decided to take the car to AutoMerc in North London. They are very expensive but have a decent reputation. As such, I'm addressing the following with them given their expertise with vintage Benz cars:

1) Replace Front suspension arm ball joints and realign wheels
2) Replace a corroded copper brake pipe + bleed and renew brake fluid
3) Rear window not working (repair or replace motor)
4) Repair Speedometer Wobble - first by lubricating the wire or replacing it
5) Replace left and right rear anti-roll bar link rods
6) Replace rear exhaust silencer with mountings with OEM supplier
7) Inspect loose air filter housing + replace air filter
8) Replace Power steering fluid + filter


I've been quote over 1300 quid for all 8 items. Once these are done, the car will need the following:

1) Waxoyl treatment
2) New tires (I've been quote 300 quid for a set of Michelin's installed and balanced by AA)
3) Installation of the Hood Insulation
4) Repair of the A/C compressor ( clutch currently seized - Automerc wants to me to convert to R134a but Im looking for an R24 specialist )


Any suggestions/ garage recommendations are welcome

£1300 is that starter. Anther £2000 is the main course plus £1000 dessert. It is a nice car but I am not sure one can justify sinking so much money into a 31 years car. I doubt the political history worth much, actually, there is NO history. It was ordered for her but never delivered or driven. So what is the big deal? If she was assassinated in it then it may have some value. Is the car bulletproofed? You may be digging a big money pit.

Advertise it in india. Costs little to nothing and you never know what offers may follow. Very simple list of work to do you list for 1300 pounds. Expensive is right.

I like the car and it would be worth repairing but not to me if I were paying shop labor. I was helping a friend do brakes on a 97 Saturn. If all parts were bought at retail, cost was ~$160 USD. A local shop was at $750. The job would only take a couple of hrs. The car is only worth <$1,000.

Interesting it appears to have SLS. A rare option in the sedans.

It has more rare options listed above dude99

Im okay spending a couple thousand on it given how much I love the W123 and that I've searched for one this good for over 6 years. I'm not going to sell it so the political history goes towards the special wow factor of the car.

I'm working with MB UK to formalize the cars history

Interesting car. The only advice I can add is that DIY will save you money. These cars are generally not that difficult to work on, but the knowledge of how to do it is getting scarce among professionals. If you can learn to do even the small jobs, while leaving the big ones to a garage, you will be able to maintain the car for a long time for a lot less money.

Cool Car - If Ya Like it Put the Cash Into it & Drive
 

Of course you probably will not get out what you put in upon selling. However if you consider cost per mile for transportation compared to buying new you may find that your "investment" is sound.

Folks seem to get wrapped up in the re-sell ROI (return on investment) game. Just silly...there's virtually no such thing. Heck I just put in $3,500 into my wife's 10 year old Honda (suddenly blew the head and became inoperable) hoping I could get another few miles out of it... Ended up just trading it in for new no brainer Honda so she doesn't have to worry....that's just life.

Putting a few grand into a car you will enjoy driving & looks that good is chicken feed when compared to most other options, especially when you figure overall cost per mile.

If someone wants to spend 10,000 keeping a W123 going, good for them. What's it to you? Same difference as buying a new 20,000 cheap junk car -- you still get where you are need to go. The charm of the w123 is it was built to last a lifetime and be serviceable. I respect anyone willing to spend money to keep one on the road.

Keep it as R12. Much easier to maintain and less prone to leaking. R12 molecules are bigger.

1300 don't sound bad to me. Seems at least 8 - 10 hrs labor. Here the mb shops charge 100.00 an hour and the dealer is 150.00 an hour.

ROI (return on investment)- I do it all the time on Wall Street so I know what it means. It is a dumb idea to over repair, over spec parts ( I use cheap/used parts or URO ) to any cars and wish it will last for another 30 years. It will not happen!! Every $$$ you sink into the car may bring your enjoyment if you can afford it but when in an accident it is appraised just like any old banger. It does not matter if it was gold plated. What I do not understand is that this is a DIY forum, members post here for help in DIY, improvise ideas, used parts, barn 'find' etc, i.e. use the minimum costs and sweat labor to buy or keep these wonderful cars on the road. I am surprised to see members egging on others to spend BIG bucks/quids.

Disclaimer - It is only me. It is the OP's money so spend it whichever way one likes.

Obviously this isn't an investment for him. It's a car to get from a to b. So totally different.

a to b. You can read the OP's mind?? I cannot. It makes it more imperative not to spend that kind of money £££. I am sure it can go from a to b in its current condition.

Ah-Kay... Nobody is "Egging" on
 

Re: "I am surprised to see members egging on others to spend BIG bucks/quids."

Hey Ah-Kay......Not all of us are trying to eek out the last value of an old diesel...We're just supporting members who choose to put some money into a car they enjoy....and several thousand dollars is peanuts for a repair of almost any car these days. And like you say...just don't be looking for a handsome return should the car be sold, wrecked, etc.

Point of reference: Some of us spend a lot more money annually on golf course green fees, etc without question from the public...absolutely no financial return on that "investment" lol....but "worth" every penny:)

no mind reading is needed...

the OP stated plainly it's the car he was searching for, and he plans to keep it in great shape, and use it himself. NOT selling it.

:D

as for the work needed. it's not difficult. 1300 is big money, sure. if you have the time or interest you can do it all yourself and save a bunch.

many people out there simply are not interested in doing repairs, and that's fine.

keep us posted on the progress of the car! it looks great.

Let put the record straight since I am bore at work.

1) I pointed out it is a nice car.
2) I pointed out the political history has no value in MY opinion. I would not even put 'political' and 'history' in the same sentence. Others may beg to differ.
3) I pointed out it will be expensive and could be a money pit.
4) I never mentioned ROI.

Do I need to say more? 86-300sdl - we have yet to play a round of golf together. I am getting out of here.

You didn't have to tell me you work on Wall St Ah-Kay. It's pretty apparent ;) I do plan to keep the car for the rest of life, mine or the car's, as I've always wanted to own a pristine W123. That being said, the cost of a very cheap, ****ty new hatchback is around 17000 USD here in London. Even after all the above service charges are factored in, the W123 will cost much me less than 1/2 that. Any new car will depreciate however it can be argued that the W123 in pristine condition will only appreciate (I've already received a reliable offer for the car as is that is 1500 more than what I paid for it). While its rare to suggest a used car is a better long term prospect to own than a new one, any well maintained W115/W123/W124 when fully serviced and restored will likely outlive any new car on the road. All these facts help me sleep better at night :)

Onto the updates..the following were completed this week:

1) Replaced Front suspension arm ball joints and realigned wheels
2) Replaced a corroded copper brake pipe + bled and renewed brake fluid
3) Replaced left and right rear anti-roll bar link rods
4) Replaced air filter housing mounts + air filter
5) Replaced Power steering fluid + filter
6) Replaced all 4 Tyres with Michelin Energy Saver +
7) Auto-RX engine cleaner is mixed with the oil for 3000 miles before change. The treatment will clear any sludge and renew seals.
8) Stanadyne Diesel Additive is mixed with the diesel fuel to clean the fuel system/ injectors.

The car runs smother now with a crisper steering response, better ride and more confident braking.

Pending items include fixing the speedometer wobble, sourcing an original Mercedes rear exhaust, replacing the AC clutch and recharge with a R12 gas equivalent and glueing the OEM insulation onto the hood.

good for you screwdriva, i think it is great you are keeping a super nice mercedes in good shape!



i do not consider any of these forums only DIY forums, to me they are for education

i want to know what is being done on my car and why, but never do any work myself

if i have a problem on the road 150 miles from home i want to be educated enough to know if it needs towing in or i can get home with it etc
educated enough to know if a dealer/shop is ripping me off etc

want to know what problems are common on my particular cars and expected repairs etc

i keep my cars in excellent running condition not because of resale value but because any time they leave my house they are going 125-325 miles and i do not want to break down
if something goes out on my car 100 miles from home that was a wear item i should have caught i consider that stupidity on my part

I will likely check the fuel screen filter checked as well as the transmission mounting (seems a bit harsh when I change from D to R and vice versa). I'm also replacing all door scraper seals and the sunroof side scrapers.

If any other members have some suggestions on neglected wear n tear items I should inspect/ replace please chime in.

Because of the history this car may not have been delivered to the first owner near the year of manufacture. It is reasonable to assume that it may have been tied up for years even depending on the circumstances.

For example when a German terrorist came to Canada and had his special order 123 car shipped over as well. He was arrested and his car seized.

The first time I saw the car I was suprised as how new it appeared. My guess was it was tied up unused for perhaps years by the Canadian government before being auctioned off. The arrested gentleman was a member of the infamous bernhoff- meiner or whatever name gang.

Personally I would not remove the in tank filter for inspection. Instead just disconnect the fuel line up front and watch for good gravity flow. You either have it or have not depending on the state of the filter.

Also I would add a few ounces of heavy oil to the outer cv joints. This is easily accomplished if the boots have not deteriorated with age. In the cooler British climate they are probably fine incidentally.

Even all the original oil in those joints is probably still there. My approach is simply cautionary in nature. An aftermarket water separator filter with a warning light is also another thing to consider. This is one of the few diesels ever sold without a functioning one.

The oil cooler lines should also be carefully checked for remaining serviceability. If one lets go and they do almost always eventually it will seriously damage the engine.

On a car as good looking and rust free as that one is I would change them simply based on age probably. The valve clearances should be checked as well as the manufacturer specifies every fifteen thousand miles. Unless you know they have been done regularily.

Also the front wheel bearings should be inspected and repacked as well as all the linkage points lubricated in the accelorator linkeages. Especially all the hood hinge pivot points as well. In otherwords wanting an old car in top condition takes some preventative maintenance. Unless you know all these things have been done.

One ugly thing as well is when buying new parts they are far from equal now. You have to pretty much specify brand or only buy from oem sources. Too many replacement parts today are just junk at best. I could really get an extensive list going if I tried. The radiator does have the right coolant in it for example? Apparently the plastic parts of the radiator may be subject to damage by the green stuff. Radiator and heater hoses still really good? Enough brake pad thickness still there? Driveshaft flex disks still look good with no cracks?

Not sure of the condition of your Hood Pad, but most this age are dry and crumbly.
I replaced 3 of them so far, 80 & 82 240D and a 85 300D. Not all that difficult to do, and a new one is around $75.
The recommended Adhesive is 3M-8090. You may not have it in the UK, but something equivalent.

I don`t remember it mentioned, but remove the battery and Tray, and inspect under it for any rust.
leaky battery Acid will cause some bad rust issues.
Also check the Hood Hinge Pockets for rust and that they are cleaned out of debris. There is also some drains in that area.

I would remove the under fender plastic Splash Shields, and wash out any mud and debris. Especially check where the lower
Fender (Wing) bolt down at the Rocker. Keeping this area clean I believe will cut down on the rusty rockers.

Pull the plastic trunk (Boot) liners, and make sure it is clean under them and the drains are clean.
There is a spot welded seam, and this is a area that can rust between the seam.
Check under the car behind the rear wheels where they throw debris. Rocks/Gravel will wear away the paint and rust will start there too.

Nice looking W123 by the way, and welcome to the Forum.

Charlie

Thanks for these valuable tips folks!

I just ordered a new rear exhaust from Mercedes. £80 shipped from Germany! I can't believe how reasonable it was and that they still supply it!!

EUREKA!!! A member of the British club forums posted this after researching the data card for me

"Attached is the data card for chassis WDB123____________.

Sales designation: 300D
Order number: 0 4 825 00269
the 4 means it was Ordered in 1984
825 means the car was ordered in India
It was the 269th car ordered in India in 1984

Paint code 473 - Champagne Metallic
Interior code 154 - Dattel (Date in German) MB Tex and listed as Light Brown in english in the global non US/Canadian market brochures. Sometimes called Palomino in the US market.

Engine number - 617912 22 158652
Transmission number - 722405 02 080433

365 - Removal costs for code 668 which is 10 liters of fuel and mode of packing VE II (relates to shipping car for export over ocean)
366 - Unknown code
410 - Electric Sliding roof (sunroof)
420 - Automatic transmission floor shift
467 - Central locking system and instruments with English lettering (MPH speedo)
486 - Self-Leveling suspension and undershields (skid plates)
505 - Outside rear view mirror, Left, Electrically adjustable (R.H.D.)
512 - Radio Becker Europa Cassette Vollstereo LMKU Typ 664
531 - Automatic Antenna
542 - Lockable glove compartment
570 - Folding armrest front
586 - Behr air conditioner, and electric window lifters (front and rear doors)
592 - Green heat insulating glass all round, Rear window laminated safety glass and heated. Windshield tinted strip
613 - Asymmetrical head lamps for Left Hand Traffic
674 - High capacity battery, tropical version
812 - Rear speakers
835 - Coir mats (Coco floor mats)

Lamps: Bosch

This is all the info that was available to me in the EPC. There are a few more things you can find out by asking the Mercedes classic center for the complete data card for your car like the exact delivery date, what brand tires it came with, and what that unknown code is. Its interesting that it was ordered in India but says to remove the costs to prep the car for ocean shipment. Sounds like when it was ordered or after it was ordered they didn't want Mercedes to ship the car to India"

The order was cancelled because Prime Minister Gandhi was assassinated. The story fits. Unbelievable!!!

Look at all the rubber parts very carefully-cooling system hoses, fuel system (underhood-fuel lines to pump, between injectors, end plug, return hoses and at the fuel tank exit in the rear of car), p/s steering hoses, oil cooler, transmission cooler lines, exhaust mounts/donuts. Usually they are starting to crack and degrade at this age, some are extremely important others will strand you but not kill the car.
The brake fluid looks rather dark in the pictures, flush it out and clean the reservoir. Inspect the rubber brake hoses too for cracks, turn the front wheels side to side while spinning the wheels to see if the brakes apply from flexing (internal damage to the hoses).
Look at the driveshaft discs on each end and the center support, usually torn/cracked. Check for play in u joint and center nut for tightness.
CV boots on the rear half shafts.
Vacuum system-check all the hoses for a tight fit and replace any weak joints/tees. They should not pull out easily.
There is a good extent of stuff you can do on the engine, lots of information on this forum-valve adjustment, checking timing chain stretch, testing glow plugs and compression, reaming out glow plug bores, cleaning pre combustion chambers, setting start of injection timing, rebuilding fuel injectors.
Inspect engine and transmission mounts (3 on engine, one of trans, rear diff has one too) if needed, rear subframe mounts are usually sagging and the whole rear of the car is low as a result. Check the shock on the engine too (torque damper).
Look at the alternator regulator brushes (simple job to inspect)
Spray the starter power wire between the solenoid and motor with oil or grease to prevent corrosion.
Replace the rear differential fluid
Transmission service, replace fluid and filter, drain torque converter, check vacuum signal and adjust modulator as needed. Look at the shifter bushings they tend to fail and inspect the shifter housing inside the car.
I would remove all the bumpers and trim and rust proof, like the trim under the tail lights.
Remove any trim/carpeting the in the trunk, the back seat entirely before going to a rust proofing there are some key areas to access once those parts are out that would be forgotten (frame rails, rear suspension mounts, rockers, wheel wells all accessible without drilling this way).

I have recently restored my Mothers 240D, as you can tell there were a few things to sort on it and I parted out a car that was rusty last summer so I learned the weak points once the interior was removed and how to address saving those areas.

Many thanks Clacker - useful advice there!

As an update, I went ahead and purchased the following relatively inexpensive items from **************.com

I like Kent - he has a real eye for detail and preventative maintenance, which is my no.1 criterion for evaluating a technician.

1) Plastic Radiator Neck Reinforcement Kit
2) W123 Stainless Steel Battery Hold Down Clamp Replacements
3) Acrylic - Werks Polish for paint and chrome
4) Miracle Paint Rust Proofing for the new OEM Battery Tray I managed to procure

For your air con RS-24 specialist I had my 107 done by a company is Brnham on Crouch Essex called into cool well with the trip out there...

Into Cool - Your Local Automotive Air Conditioning Specialist

Update
 

thanks sl300-24 - I've booked an appointment based on your recommendation.

A quick update on the car.

1) The new MB exhaust is in (pic attached). The car is much quieter now as a result

2) Noise reduction probably had something to do with the OEM hood pad/ insulation I had installed as well.

3) Replaced the transmission/ torque converter fluid/ filter. No more jerky gear changes. Made a HUGE difference to shift quality.

4) New window and sunroof side scraper seals are in

5) New Michelin Energy 195/70 R 14 tires are incredible and have contributed to a 0.5 kmpl overall increase in fuel efficiency in London urban driving.

Next up, replace the old mounts with new OEM engine and transmission mounts (Expensive as hell but hopefully a once in a decade installation) and replacing the front and rear sunroof seals and the track felts while greasing the track and miracle painting the rusty sunroof frame. Also going to miracle paint the new OEM battery tray before putting that in as well. Probably change the differential oil as well.

Aside from reinforcing the OEM Behr radiator's plastic neck (using Mercedes source's kit), replacing the coolant and changing the oil and fuel filters after a diesel purge, there remains nothing else to be done to the car.

That's the beauty of Mercedes diesels. Careful, diligent restoration with OEM parts upfront typically equates to a relatively stress free, pleasurable ownership experience once the work is done.

A couple more updates:

- All 3 mounts (2 engine and 1 transmission) were replaced with new OEM factory mounts freshly ordered from Mercedes Germany. The old mounts were also OEM and looked like they had been on the car for at least a decade. The car feels a lot tighter, firm and even more solid.

- The battery was replaced with an OEM Mercedes Battery. I was tempted to go aftermarket but the cost difference was marginal and there's something really nice about seeing the Mercedes logo in the corner of the engine bay.

- Finally swapped the steering wheel out. I'll post a picture shortly.

sounds like it will be in great shape when you get done replacing some of these wear parts

Intocool fixed my AC!
 

Today, I took the W123 to an R24 gas AC Specialist - Intocool. Best decision I could have made!

Despite being unused for a decade, all it took was greasing up the stuck AC clutch, filling the car with R24 gas and lo and behold, the A/C worked like new again. Temperature at the grill went down to 5 degrees.

Pressure test confirmed that there were no leaks anywhere. Needless to say, I remain in awe. After 10 years of not being used, I expected to have to rebuild/ replace a lot . Didn't expect to walk away with an bill for just gas and an hours labour.

I ran the A/C on full blast during the 90 minute drive back to London to pressurize the system. Even with my coat on, I was shivering....but warm n fuzzy on the inside.

Pics of the grill temperature on its way down + replacement steering wheel attached

Glad it worked out for you with the air-con:)

Fuel can!
 

My pride n joy - the fuel kannister!

A couple additional updates:

1) The sunroof has been fully serviced - by this I mean, the panel's been removed, all seals and felt track pads replaced, OEM Mercedes Benz supplied sunroof grease applied liberally and the entire sunroof frame has been rustproofed with a thick coat of Miracle Paint. The roof slides like butter and locks in place with a convincing thud now!

2) All accessible rust prone areas under the chassis (the axle arms and key mounting points) have been wire brushed and coated with Miracle paint.

3) I was lucky enough to find a matching replacement dead pedal/ foot rest that has now been installed.

This was an expensive job to get done but hopefully will last a long time.

Next on my list is:

1) Diesel purge
2) Replace primary/ secondary fuel filters
3) Oil/ filter change
4) Coolant replacement with plastic neck reinforcement (Kent Bergsma's kit)

Good for you, man! Your car is awesome.

sounds like it will be in good shape for years to come

That's the plan, especially given the car's history :)

It's been nearly 9 months since my last update and I'm happy to report that I've completed the following:

1. Diesel purge - WOW! What a difference. Running the car purely on 2 cans of Diesel Purge across a variety of RPMs did a great job of improving throttle response and economy while reducing engine noise and visible emissions. Can't recommend this product enough. I plan to follow this up with the Chevron Techron diesel fuel system treatment (also a highly rated additive).

2) Replace primary/ secondary fuel and oil filters - I replaced everything with OEM MB branded filters and hoses/ clamps to replace the old filters, hoses and O-rings.

Next on my list of To-do's:

Replace mechanical hand primer pump - While performing the diesel purge, I discovered that the original Bosch hand primer pump was leaking severely. I've ordered the Monark replacement pump given the favorable reviews for the product.

Replace Coolant, Thermostat and Reinforce the Radiator neck - Given the lack of history, I wanted to ensure that the coolant was in peak condition and the thermostat was replaced. I also wanted to use Kent Bergma's kit to prevent the need to replace the radiator anytime soon.

Almost forgot to include that I recently cleaned out my license plate bulb holder and lens and switched to OSRAM LEDriving LED bulbs for:

1) Brake lights
2) Reverse lights
3) License plate lights

My goal was to minimize power draw and heat emissions. The results are incredible and the light from the bulbs look great. Picture attached.

(Sadly, neither OSRAM or Philips make replacement bulbs for the parking bulbs or the interior bulbs that I'm aware of and I refuse to use the eBay variety)

Here are a couple pictures from my OEM glow plug replacement (+ reaming) and of the LED license plate upgrade.

Can't recommend these relatively simple DIY jobs enough!

Screwdriva, how much is it gonna cost to move the steering column ? Haven't you noticed its on the wrong side ???? hehe :)

I dare say I haven't (yet) ol' chap!

My OSRAM LED bulb conversion obsession continues. Today, I replaced the front facing T4W bulbs. While I was a bit sad to see the yellow color go, it was time for a 4000K "Warm White" upgrade. (Note: The attached picture is slightly deceptive in that it makes the bulb appear more blue than white.)

The result: Literally twice the light for only 1W of total power draw per bulb. Best of all, no warning lights, OEM build quality and no need to replace the bulb for another 5+ years.