So I'm about to order some new replacement nozzles, but can't decide which ones to get. I've searched the web quite a bit and there doesn't seem to be definite info on performance/economy with regard to the different options/specs.

Seems that although the injectors themselves are unique to each engine, the nozzles are interchangeable. For my '85 190D w/ the 601 motor (and likely original 240 nozzles) most often the direct OE replacement is listed as DN0SD265. Yet at mercedes source, Kent sells the 261s in the 4-cyl kit. For the 5-cyl 190D he sells the 314s. The ID parts website sells the 314s as "a slight power upgrade" with fitment to the 601 motor.

I have read that the higher the number, the more recent in design. Are the 314s the best for my application? More power with a slight sacrifice in economy would be fine. I would appreciate anyone's experiences or knowledge on this. Cheers.

Here's the rig

Kent gets his info directly from Monark. So just trust what he suggests. They'll work fine.

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1987 300E

There's only a few choices out there.

You have German made Monark's, which DES merged with around 24-months ago. DES = "Dresdner Einspritz Systeme.

You have Italian made Bosio's.

You can try Chinese made nozzles, which run around $1 to $2 bucks a pop, or even less if you buy in bulk. I would say beware.

You have Bosch, which are made in India, maybe France, and most likely China now.

I have not seen any nozzles made in the USA.

I'm please with the Monarchs I installed about 10k miles ago. No regrets.

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1991 350SDL 350k+ miles

Me too, almost 5000 miles on mine and they are fine. They are a bit loud though with the way they tick, but I have nothing to compare them against.

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1987 300E

Do you truly mean $1/nozzle? How could they make one for that price?

I hope somebody starts making them w/ 3-D printing (metal powder). It is amazing the tolerances they can make and the ruggedness, plus easy to manage inventory - select file, click "print" (takes a day or more). Companies have been making rocket engine injectors this way for several years.

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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

Yes, truly below a $1 USD. Actually, going thru "Alibaba" it was incredibly cut throat. I think the lowest I got was .69 cents if I bought 500. Shipping was cheap too, around $30 bucks from mainland China. One company contacted me and said no matter what the price was, it would reduce it's price by 1 cent to get my business (.01). I think the lowest quote was .70 cents, so that is how I got .69 cents.

Thanks for the replies.
Well i guess im probably over-thinking it, any of them will work fine (though i'd never put anything chinese in my car to save a buck). Anyway, i'd still be interested in how the different nozzles 261 vs 265 vs 314 etc "spray" and if I could expect any noticeable difference in how the engine runs. By the way, all the monark nozzles are available from a distributor on ebay direct from Germany, to those looking for a good selection and price.

I forgot to comment on this. If your Injector Nozzles are worn and the Pop Pressures are low if you install any decent Nozzle and correct the low Popl Pressure you may tell a differenced in power and easier starting..

After that I don't think there is any measuerable power difference betweent Bosio, MonarK, and Bosch Nozzles in a stock setup.

I have not on any of the Forums read where someone tried as an example a rebuilt set of Injectors with new Monark Nozzles and then pulled them and repalced them with a new set of rebuilt Injectors with Bosio Nozzles. So the Nozzles never get compared in the same Engine. And even if someone did that it is a sort of the seat of the pants comparison.

You sometimes hear someone say they had a Car with Bosio Injectors and have another car with Monarks or drove another Car later with Monarks and that one was peppier then the other but there is too many variables between different Cars and Engines for that to be a good test.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I'd be curious to know about the stepping up to 314s on an N/A motor making any difference. The issue is, most people don't replace nozzles until their old ones are entirely toast and they've already done a half a dozen diesel purges to try to prolong the inevitable.

So any new nozzle will increase power, fuel economy, and starting. So the question is how much of that is the bigger size and how much of that is fresh parts.

That being said my 200TD is probably about due for nozzles and I'd be willing to trade and mpg or two for a little extra power. 75HP lugging around a wagon body and an SLS pump isn't what you might call "spritely"

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68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500

Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i

In theory atomizing the Fuel better makes it easier to burn. Squeezing the Fuel through a smaller hole increases atomization. If that is true you would think an squeezing the same amount of Fuel through an Injector Nozzle with a larger hole would not atomize as well.

In a stock situation the Fuel Injection Pump is only going to put out X amount of Fuel. A larger Nozzle size might allow the Fuel to enter the Precombustion chamber sooner or faster.

Allowing Fuel to enter the Prechamber easier and faster (because the hole is bigger) could mean there is less time for the Fuel to leak off between the clearances that exist between the Injector Nozzle Pintel and the Nozzle Body and the same in the Fuel Injection Pump Elements.

The Injector Nozzle with a larger Hole and larger flow potential seems to be a better thing for someone who has modified their Fuel Injection System to put out more Fuel.
Would that amount of Fuel give a noticeable increase in power? I kind of doubt it.

I know little about performance increases except what I read now and again of what others have done.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I have tried a set of "#242"s which blast an incredible amount of fuel with a perfect spray pattern/cone and a very distinctive and unique "pop", and my car's performance derived some very positive results. These are R&D nozzles. They had a weird lopey idle, however, which on reflection I am more than happy with because of their performance.

Right now, I have a set of "#025"s, which are re-grounded #1930s. They flow around 15% more fuel than #315s, and the latter flow more fuel than any known COTS nozzle.

The only way I know to determine flow rates is to capture the fuel from an injector after 100 pops, and measure output. Admittedly it is not the most precise way since you have fuel clinging to the sides of a container, the fuel is atomized / vapor, and the measuring is nothing more than comparing one nozzle against another. I can say without much of a doubt that #315s flow the most.

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Just out of curiosity, since the OM606 has an entirely different style of injector, I was under the impression that they took a special nozzle too. Is that the case? If so, are there the good quality Monark nozzles for them? I thought I read somewhere that the only option for them was Indian Bosch's or Bosio's.

My 606 engine came without injectors but got a complete set from an individual online that had a diesel shop rebuild them but he sold the car before he installed them. I got the set of six for $400. Im curious to what brand of nozzles are in them but don't know if I want to screw with taking one apart just to see. I am curious as to how they pattern and the pop pressure though. I was going to build a pop tester at some point OR a friend as a nice, nearly new but older Japanese made Diesel Kiki pop tester he'd sell me for about $200 with a shim set. It is built buy a true diesel injection company, now Zexel and under Bosch. Had a Japanese tractor with a Kiki injection pump on it once upon a time.

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87' 300D, Currently undergoing an OM606 swap/build! SUPERTURBO!!!
03' 2500HD Dmax + goodies!
82' 300SD, parting out!
93' 300TE 4matic, parting out!
83' 240D Project Cheap Drive
89' 300E, parting out!
74' Datsun 510 wagon
88' RX7 10thAE, 13B track car build soon

Skippy~ As for perception: Drive what you like and can afford. Those who don't like it can supply vacuum to one of your components. LOL

If you need parts, I have some!

Mark - After I get a baseline speed with the 315's we could do an experiment with the "#025"s at the track and quantify the difference. Might be interesting - and actual data. I expect Mutt's speeds to be pretty consistent so I think we could detect any difference. I'm always up for having someone accompany me to the track. Ever been "pit crew"?

I think your method for capturing volume is reasonable. Are you using Stoddard solvent? It's pretty thin and shouldn't leave much on the beaker. Even with Diesel fuel the amount left on the beaker walls would be pretty consistent from test to test so whatever quantity that is would be, more or less, a wash.

Dan

I did not spell check the following:

OK a hypothetical one Element Fuel Injection Pump with the Throttle wired down in one position.

The Element is supposed to meter the amount of Fuel that gets pushed down stream to the Injector.

If in 100 strokes of the Element Plunger= 10 cc with one Injector and Nozzle combination and you change the Injector and Nozzle Combination and you now get 12cc per 100 Strokes.

What is responsible for the change when the Element is what is supposed to control the amount of Fuel Delivered.

I believe as you do that different Nozzles can change the amount of Fuel that comes out of the Injector because I have seen that on the Test Stand and infact there are different fuel quanity Specs for the same Fuel Injection Pump depending on if you use Test Injectors with 12SD12 Nozzles and if you use what are called Nozzle Plates instead of Injectors on the test stand.

The question is by what mechinism is the amount of fuel being altred. Becaus as I said the Element is supposed to control the amount of Fuel Injected.

Note that when the Elemet moves 1X Fuel 1X is in theory supposed to get Injected into the Engine. But that asssums no Fuel is leaking past the Element or the Injector Nozzle Pintel and the Nozzle Body.

The rough idle with the larger holed Nozzles is likely due to poor atomization.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel