https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTnCWkfN6QA

Like this one but I want mine to be non turbo. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe stupid, but I would rather not swap everything in the engine bay AND the trans. And the info I read said that the manual with the N/A is a better set up. The one in the video seems to run nicely and I have tried to contact that guy but I have had no reply. I'm not sure if my email got to him or not but I did track one down.

Frankenbenz? Well, sort of. They never offered the CD in manual form. They never offered the CD in Germany, it was an export only model. So, it would be a frankenbenz no matter how you look at it but I HATE an automatic. They WILL come out, it's just a matter of time. Oh, and my grandfather always had a 240D with gears so a 123 with gears is what I want. Reminds me of my times there. Europeans never liked autos much, the manuals were far more common there than here. In all of my looking, I couldn't find a 240 with gears, manual windows, and roof with manual climate control (the exact one I wanted, Caledonia Green if I could choose a color) but I DID stumble onto my coupe for $1000.00 with the 90k factory reman with the docs to support it. Oh, and it came from California so it has very little rust. A coupe with a manual transmission sounds like the model M-B SHOULD have offered.

Hey, Stretch, I do understand that I'm probably the only one who ever wanted to make an engine non turbo, but if I do those things, do you think it would run like a normally aspirated om617? Aside from the squirters, stronger crank, filled valves, and the cam timing, I'm not sure what the internal differences are and if they would prevent it from running as a N/A should. Seems to me that the hardened crank, oil squirters, and other betterments wouldn't change anything other than longevity. Any thoughts?

Too much fuel and not enough air to burn it? I would definitely watch your egt's.

I bet there are many eager people that will trade there NA for your turbo motor.

That's some nice compression.


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The cam profile is different, the prechambers are different, the injectors are different pop pressures, and the injection pump is different. Those are the things I believe will make the engine run differently from a true N/A engine. You could swap all those parts with the N/A motor, and every other improvement in the turbo engine will just increase longevity.

If people already get 300k miles out of a turbo 617 that's been boosted and thrashed its whole life, I'd love to know how long a turbo spec engine run without boost its whole life would last. Bulletproof.

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
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Totally agree. Making a turbo engine into an N/A would not be that hard (as described above). The only thing that might make a difference is the cam not being changed, and the injection timing left at turbo spec. However, if the IP is changed out to the N/A version, it would be timed to the N/A spec anyway. Even changing the cam is not that difficult, knowing that you have the donor N/A engine handy. You might also think of trading/selling the turbo engine for a good N/A, so the turbo engine stays intact. I have a low miles (under 100,000 I was told) N/A engine here in So. Cal.....Rich

__________________

All Diesel Fleet
1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL
2005 E320 CDI (daily)

LOTS of parts for sale!


EGR block kit
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/355250-sale-egr-delete-block-off-plate-kit.html

1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This!
Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit for your 616/ 617 For Sale + Install Inst.

Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11):
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367883-sanden-retrofit-installation-guide.html

1) Keep the turbo motor intact, it is worth more. Trade or sell when the time comes.

2) I had a grey market 300TD, non-turbo, five speed manual, great car and an absolute blast to drive. I also had the opportunity to drive a 300TD with turbo that was converted to a manual. I found nothing at all wrong with mating a turbo engine to a manual transmission. I suspect it was not offered for pollution emission reasons, not because the combination doesn't drive well.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

Maxbumpo....Any vibration in the converted one at any RPM? Did they use a 300 or 240 flywheel?

No vibration. 240 flywheel. The differential was not (yet) changed, so it was a little tall, a dream on the highway but a little slower than it should have been around town.

My dream car is a '95 sedan with OM606 turbo, manual transmission, intercooled.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

I upgraded my '80 model CD with the entire turbo drivetrain from an '84 parts car - engine and tranny and also brought over the thicker driveshaft, bigger exhaust, rear end, and cluster. Been very happy with it for 5 or 6 years now; in hindsight, though it might have been a better idea to find a really nice '85 model.

Someday I want to swap in a manual tranny - will keep a spare driveshaft to make it easy to swap back to the auto tranny if I encounter vibration problems I can't resolve.

All I can tell you is my experience. I have an OM617 turbo ('85) backed by an '83 240D Getrag 4 speed in an S-10. It is ONLY used for racing so it's used hard with no issues so far.

1) The 4 speed (either the M-B or the Getrag (aluminum case) will live just fine behind the turbo.

2) Everything fits with the 4 speed/turbo combination, except the pilot bearing issue which has been discussed on here a great deal.

3) Diesels REALLY like a turbo - it's essentially free HP AND MPG. Mercedes is notoriously conservative and held off on fitting a manual until they had a 5 speed that they liked. Doesn't mean there was anything wrong with a 4 speed behind the turbo engine. The 4 speed lacks an overdrive and I think the auto has an OD gear (high gear is less something like 0.67 to 1 or so) so you'll lose that advantage with either a turbo or non-turbo engine.

I'm not saying that there's anything "wrong" with your thinking but I suspect that you need more info on this. The turbo engine doesn't make all that much more power (they're about 126HP from what I've read) and so aren't going to fail a 4 speed because of power output. Everything fits - I've done it. The 240D flywheel works fine though I wish I'd have marked my stuff better when removing it - again an issue with moving the 4 speed behind either engine.

My guess is that you're over-thinking this. I tend to do the same thing so I can relate!

Dan

The 722.5 and .6 were the first auto transmissions that had an overdrive gear (5th). The 722.3, 722.4, and 722.1 all had 4 gears, and 4th was direct. I believe The 722.5 was created by adding an electric overdrive to the back of the 722.4 trans.

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png

I've been slowly learning about this swap. Some people claim vibration, some don't.

Some of the 617's have a neutrally balanced flywheel, some do not. My last understanding was to find the one with that's neutral.

All that info is on here. Was discussed somewhat recently.

And something to do with an upper vibration something.

I basically don't know much.

But I would put up with a little vibration to have a turbo.

What an interesting thread!
I went from 4 speed manual to 5 speed turbo. While the NA engine was quicker launching off, the turbo does wonders, and has no troubles with a manual box.
I find this sort of thing interesting too, because not only would the turbo MW IP work NA (by blocking off the ALDA, or if it was me, removing+rigging it to give more fuel) but the injector pop pressures were same as the turbo engines after they were introduced to the luckier parts of the world.

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

Some of the modifications made to the OM617 to turn it into the OM617a were given to the non turbo OM617 in about 1980 anyway - the oil pumps remained the same (well similar) as the early OM61X engines and the non turbos didn't have oil squirters for the underside cooling of the pistons.

I think with a non turbo IP and the lower pop pressures set to the injectors it would be a nice approximation to the "real" non turbo

Oh yeah I forgot about the increased valve lift - I don't think this would have much effect on the feel of the engine though with the turbo gone. As for the pre-chambers they were given to the non turbos after 1980 ish - although the pistons were modified in the non turbo OM617 to fit the new pre-chamber design they didn't give us non turbo owners the gucci turbo pistons!

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Don't forget that the MW turbo IP will have larger elements so you'll be over fueling a non turbo application - making black smoke and giving us diesel owners a bad name. The Injector pop pressures need to match the IP otherwise the timing will be a bit off as the injectors will "let go" at the wrong moment

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

So would this be a good time to ask if I should replace my timing chain

So what is the magic year for a turbo motor? With the upgrades, and a neutral balanced flywheel?