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  #1  
Old 04-19-2015, 09:02 PM
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om617 black smoke at idle

So before I get too much into my problem I figure you probably need some background. I have the om617 mounted in a 86 jeep comanchee 4x4 that is mainly used to plow snow. It is backed by an ax15 jeep five speed trans. When I got the engine it came out of some guys shed so I never saw it in the original car. I got it running easy enough and drove the jeep like that for about 300 miles before it started using antifreeze. Ended up having a cracked head which I replaced with a junk yard head that I had magna fluxed before I installed it.
Now I have the new head on and the engine running fairly well, good power sounds good except it has two problems.

1)excessive, billowing black smoke at idle
2)extremely hard to start cold but starts fine warm and runs just like before

I have timed the pump to 24 degrees btdc and gotten rebuilt injectors which I installed. It smokes black at idle and when accelerating but the acceleration smoke isn't a problem. The engine has no alda (some kind of plug filling the hole), the only question I have is how straight up should the first cam lobe be pointing at 24 btdc? If the engine was 180 degrees off is this how you would expect it to run? I can't believe the engine would run this well 180 degrees out of time but besides an internal pump problem its all I can come up with.

Any help would be appreciated.

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  #2  
Old 04-19-2015, 10:38 PM
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Both cam lobes generally upward is the standard. The alda should be restored before assuming much else with the black smoke.

You do have a decent in condition air filter present?
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  #3  
Old 04-20-2015, 12:21 AM
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Don't move the timing of the camshaft. I remember reading a form about someone who thought the same thing as you and flipped it 180 degrees. Broke the camshaft in 3 pieces of start up. You can check the timing using a dial gauge I think it's called. I doubt it's the adla valve. I don't have one and don't notice anything. I'm pretty sure your injection is to far advanced. Everytime I had Retarded timing I blew white snowlike crazy. If it's not knocking try driving it and see if it clears up
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  #4  
Old 04-20-2015, 01:21 AM
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If you put the engine at TDC compression, the cam lobes should both be on their base circles. I think a tooth off on the timing chain is more than 10 degrees of movement. That's a LOT, and the engine wouldn't "run good and sound good."

Black smoke is too much fuel usually. The plugged ALDA warrants at least a little investigation... It's something that can cause smoking, and it's been tampered with. KISS
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2015, 01:37 AM
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What does the smoke smell like?

If you line up the Timing Marks on the Back of the Camshaft Gear with the Bearing Tower Mark and do that extremely accuratly and look down at what the Crank Damper Point is pointing to you will get a good idea if you are far off timing.

When it came from the Factory it was set at OT (top dead center). I would not expect it to be exactly on OT because the Gears and Chain wear a little. I can't remember the mileage but after a certain mileage the Factory has it should be about 2 degrees past OT.
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  #6  
Old 04-20-2015, 01:45 AM
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unless you have a massive intake or exhaust restriction i don't see how you could be over fueling at idle. my first thought is timing unless the injection pump has internal problems. i thought i remember reading that at a certain build date, bosch screwed up the little mark you line the splines up with on the input shaft of the pump? if so, you could have gotten everything "correct" but your bosch pump was from that era.

Edit: i found the info on this issue! here are pics.
Attached Thumbnails
om617 black smoke at idle-fuel-injection-pump-timing-126-.jpg   om617 black smoke at idle-fuel-injection-pump-timing-126-b.jpg  
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2015, 01:26 PM
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Recheck your valvash
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Old 04-20-2015, 01:27 PM
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Valve lash , sorry.
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2015, 02:29 PM
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Smoke

Thanks for all the replies guys, the truck certainly is drivable and I have driven it about ten miles since I got the head back on. It actually seems to have more power now then before but the smoke while sitting still always there. The valves are something I will check again this weekend. The air filter is the same filter I used before I cracked the head and it didn't smoke then so I can't believe that is the problem. The smoke is unburnt fuel no doubt. I have a video on my phone of the smoke at idle I could upload to youtube if you all think it would help.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2015, 02:33 PM
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Oh I forgot to say it has a new timing chain, all new guides and a new tensioner spring as well. I figured while the head was off it was the time to do it.
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2015, 02:47 PM
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https://youtu.be/XStDVV_o6Gk

This should be a link to the video.
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2015, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmall12 View Post
Thanks for all the replies guys, the truck certainly is drivable and I have driven it about ten miles since I got the head back on. It actually seems to have more power now then before but the smoke while sitting still always there. The valves are something I will check again this weekend. The air filter is the same filter I used before I cracked the head and it didn't smoke then so I can't believe that is the problem. The smoke is unburnt fuel no doubt. I have a video on my phone of the smoke at idle I could upload to youtube if you all think it would help.
Does the smoke smell like Diesel Fuel?

Poorly burned Fuel can produce from gray to black smoke. Raw atomized unburned Fuel comes out white and of course smells like Diesel Fuel. That happend to me when I got the Fuel Injection Pump timing too late/retarded on my Volvo Diesel.

The Engine started fine but I got billows of white smoke out of the Tail Pipe. I looked it up and the Book said the white is the light hitting the atomized unburned Fuel and it shows up white.

I loosened the Fuel Injection Pump and rotated the Pump in the advance direction and some of the white smoke cleared up.
After that I went through the whole timing procedure including the part where you stick a Dial Indicator in the Head of the Pump.
After I did it correctly everthing was fine.

Cost Effective Maintenance - Diesel Smoke tells YOU a Story...
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2015, 10:45 PM
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If it still has an EGR system, make sure its not stuck open, or delete it.
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2015, 10:25 AM
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The EGR is deleted and as far raw vs. poorly burnt fuel Id say its poorly burnt when I said smells like diesel I mean its not sweet like antifreeze and doesn't smell like its burning oil. Looking at the fuel that dripped out of the drip timing it looks "piss yellow" for lack of a better term. Im seriously starting to think the fuel wen bad in the five months it took me to find a used head, get it magna fluxed and get it installed.

Ill do some more investigation this weekend and get back with you all.

Thanks.
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2017, 04:34 PM
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First post thread Resurrection!

I bought this truck as a non-running pile a few weeks back. Priming the fuel system was enough to start it, but either the black smoke issue was never resolved through multiple owners, or its back. (I found this thread searching for diagnotic procedures)

I'd venture to say it's worse now than in the video. I adjusted valves this morning with no change. I'll run through the rest of the recommendations in this thread, to see what I find. Just figured I'd update the world on the situation, hah.

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