ABS Delete ?'s on a W126 - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JB3 · #31 07-02-2015, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Tough crowd!

Come on JB give him a brake! (sic)

Hey, you know its a very old car with a brain box under the passenger seat. I figured there was no guarantee that changing it for some hundreds of dollars would not necessarily fix the problem and since I have no clue about how to trouble shoot it.....well, you know.

Besides who understands these new fangled things anyhow?

It being broken is a heck of a good reason to remove it!

However, if i had a nickle for every person ive come across who thought ABS was a bogeyman that took their brake pedal and gave it to a demon, id have at Least a dollar by now

Edward Wyatt · #32 07-02-2015, 11:19 PM

The op sounds like a bored kid with too much time on his hands during summer vacation.

t walgamuth · #33 07-03-2015, 08:14 AM

The OP sounds just fine to me.

Some of you guys sound like Chicken Little. The brake system on a Mercedes 126 is so good without the abs that it certainly is not unsafe to drive the car without it. All the 126s built for many years had all the same calipers and master cylinder as the system in my car but without the abs box under the hood and the brain box under the rf seat. They work just fine and are much safer and easier to stop with great control than other brands of car which use abs to mask crappy braking systems.

So quit trying to scare the OP. He has driven the car for four years with it disabled.

Skippy · #34 07-03-2015, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

I call bull on being insured as a non ABS vehicle, no insurance company would insure a car that has had ABS removed.

Are you sure about that? They insure vehicles that never had it in the first place, including every vehicle I've ever owned. What's the difference?

JB3 · #35 07-03-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

The OP sounds just fine to me.

Some of you guys sound like Chicken Little. The brake system on a Mercedes 126 is so good without the abs that it certainly is not unsafe to drive the car without it. All the 126s built for many years had all the same calipers and master cylinder as the system in my car but without the abs box under the hood and the brain box under the rf seat. They work just fine and are much safer and easier to stop with great control than other brands of car which use abs to mask crappy braking systems.

So quit trying to scare the OP. He has driven the car for four years with it disabled.

Whos trying to scare the OP?

Hes already of the firm opinion that towing is improved without antilock brakes and that antilock brakes caused several accidents that werent his fault. If anything, the rest of us should be scared of his total conviction in bad data.

As a man who tows frequently, whats your opinion on the utility of functioning ABS in a towing situation?

For the record i understand what may give the OP this belief. In an emergency situation to have the brake pedal sudenly pulse so fast its vibrating certainly does feel like you are losing brake power. However, theres a difference between whats actually happening and what you think is happening

JB3 · #36 07-03-2015, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Are you sure about that? They insure vehicles that never had it in the first place, including every vehicle I've ever owned. What's the difference?

I think the OPs fine there.
I can see an insurace company only having a problem if the car was insured WITH abs and its subsquently removed.

Even then any investigation of a wrecked vehicle would only go that far if someone was killed probably. Ive never seen an adjustor do more than check for whats damaged in a fender bender situation

97 SL320 · #37 07-03-2015, 08:45 AM

The issue I have with the OP isn't so much that he wants to remove the ABS, it is more he has absolutely no clue how a non ABS or ABS braking system works. Removing an ABS system is very simple and ranks in the realm " if you have to ask you probably shouldn't be making changes".

If ABS is inhibiting your "driving style" on public roads, you have been watching too many Ken Block gymkhana videos, really need to do a track day at a road race circuit and get your ass handed to you by the instructor. ( Or if you truly have driving skills work on developing them on the track. )

As for insurance, cars are ranked on what they were delivered with. There are specific call outs and discounts on by bill for ABS equipped cars. Will the ins co kick a claim for inop ABS? Only the agent , adjuster or actuary would know for sure.

P.S. Can a W126 diesel really get going fast enough to where ABS is needed?

Edward Wyatt · #38 07-03-2015, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Are you sure about that? They insure vehicles that never had it in the first place, including every vehicle I've ever owned. What's the difference?

You are correct in that they will insure a vehicle that never had it.

The difference here is that the insurance company is going to assume that the vehicle in question has ABS, they go by the VIN and they will give a small percentage discount for ABS and also for the SRS system on the W126 so equipped. The VIN database tells them everything about the car, even if there have been claims against that VIN in the past.

No insurance company is going to accept that the ABS has been removed by a layperson on a original equipment ABS vehicle and go ahead and insure the vehicle. The car sure wouldn't pass a safety inspection in states that require it, much less the British style yearly MOT. Imagine if the next owner crashes into something because the ABS was removed and he assumed the car still had an operational ABS system. The liability is huge, and if there is an accident you can be sure that a forensic examiner will find out that the ABS system had been removed. I'm not talking about an insurance adjuster, who cares about the car itself, its the huge liability in personal injury terms.

I'm not talking out of school here, my neighbor has been a forensic accident expert for decades. He does accident reconstruction and gives expert testimony in personal injury automotive lawsuits. He has helped win personal injury cases when the at fault driver was driving a jacked up brodozer with huge tires. The weight of the rim and tire assembly overwhelmed the braking system and caused longer stopping distances.

This thread should be deleted, so some newbie doesn't get the idea that its ok to tamper with ABS system. The op can do whatever he wants, but he should do away from a forum where some innocent person might get the idea that its ok to tow a trailer after removing an important safety system.

t walgamuth · #39 07-03-2015, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

Whos trying to scare the OP?

Hes already of the firm opinion that towing is improved without antilock brakes and that antilock brakes caused several accidents that werent his fault. If anything, the rest of us should be scared of his total conviction in bad data.

As a man who tows frequently, whats your opinion on the utility of functioning ABS in a towing situation?

For the record i understand what may give the OP this belief. In an emergency situation to have the brake pedal sudenly pulse so fast its vibrating certainly does feel like you are losing brake power. However, theres a difference between whats actually happening and what you think is happening

I thought the question was about the 126.

Towing? I have towed campers for nearly 40 years so at least half that was before abs became common. In all that time I have had the abs actuate while towing just once. I'd have to say it was not a factor one way or the other that time, I don't think.

If my abs on my big dodge became inop would I fix it? Probably but it would not be a big deal to me.

I don't see how abs can possibly help you stop quicker in the 126 mb if you are on dry pavement though. It functions by releasing the brakes so that right there means you will be getting x% less braking.

My dodge is another matter though. It has abs I am pretty sure but perhaps only on the rear. I also think there is an automatic compensator for braking with different weights on the back of the truck....so having the abs inop on it might be a little dicey.

Mark DiSilvestro · #40 07-03-2015, 12:34 PM

ABS can make braking safer in some panic situations by allowing a certain degree of steering control. The problem is if it malfunctions, it can actually make the brakes very unsafe, compared to a vehicle that never had ABS.
With an old vehicle, it's often very difficult or prohibitive to repair, because an intermittent ABS failure can be very difficult to track down, skilled mechanics able to properly diagnose and repair the system may be hard to find, and the parts to repair an aged ABS system are very expensive and/or no longer availible.

OTOH, I would never remove or disable an ABS system because of the potential liability issues and I have refused to do so when asked by others.
Since all my own vehicles are 'old', I've avoided this problem by only acquiring vehicles built without ABS.
Unfortunately, owners of old vehicles with a failed ABS are faced with a Hobson's choice - operate a possibly unsafe vehicle, try to get it fixed, or face the consequences if they disable the system.

The irony with all this is continuing to drive a vehicle with a failed ABS could be much more dangerous than having the system disabled.
Wouldn't the owner of a car with a bad ABS system be just as liable as the owner of a car with the ABS removed or disabled?

Happy Motoring, Mark

97 SL320 · #41 07-03-2015, 01:17 PM

When towing, the trailer brakes should be strong enough to not to need braking forces from the car. If towing a non braked trailer, then speeds, following distances should be adjusted accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I don't see how abs can possibly help you stop quicker in the 126 mb if you are on dry pavement though. It functions by releasing the brakes so that right there means you will be getting x% less braking.

The above isn't entirely correct. For any maximum braking event ( ABS or not ) the tire needs to rotate at some % _slower_ than road speed. If the wheel locks up, braking distance increases due to "hydroplaning" on melting rubber. The difference between max braking and lockup is pretty small.

In order to recover from this, brake pressure must be released in order for the wheel to rotate again.

What ABS does is monitor wheel speed and if a wheel sees rotational speed significantly slower than the others or make a sudden drop in speed:

Blocks further application of hydraulic pressure.

If the wheel does not begin to rotate again, pressure is released.

Once the wheel begins to rotate again, brake pressure is again applied and the cycle repeats it's self.

Something that no one can argue with is that ABS allows for different left / right braking forces on split traction surfaces and instant front / rear brake bias adjustments. I think that the F/R bias adjustment is where the real advantage is.

( As side note, when cornering, tires need a certain amount of slip. If the car starts to under steer to the point more steering won't bring it back, unwinding the steering wheel a bit then turning again will allow you to regain traction. This sounds counter intuitive but does work. )

t walgamuth · #42 07-04-2015, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

ABS can make braking safer in some panic situations by allowing a certain degree of steering control. The problem is if it malfunctions, it can actually make the brakes very unsafe, compared to a vehicle that never had ABS.
With an old vehicle, it's often very difficult or prohibitive to repair, because an intermittent ABS failure can be very difficult to track down, skilled mechanics able to properly diagnose and repair the system may be hard to find, and the parts to repair an aged ABS system are very expensive and/or no longer availible.

OTOH, I would never remove or disable an ABS system because of the potential liability issues and I have refused to do so when asked by others.
Since all my own vehicles are 'old', I've avoided this problem by only acquiring vehicles built without ABS.
Unfortunately, owners of old vehicles with a failed ABS are faced with a Hobson's choice - operate a possibly unsafe vehicle, try to get it fixed, or face the consequences if they disable the system.

The irony with all this is continuing to drive a vehicle with a failed ABS could be much more dangerous than having the system disabled.
Wouldn't the owner of a car with a bad ABS system be just as liable as the owner of a car with the ABS removed or disabled?

Happy Motoring, Mark

How would they know?

Mark DiSilvestro · #43 07-04-2015, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

How would they know?

I was referring to those that know something's wrong when the car's brakes don't stop properly because the ABS has triggered inappropriately. I know 3 people this has happened to and the problem was so temporary or intermittent that it didn't set the ABS light, making an accurate diagnosis almost impossible.
Or the countless people who continue to drive their vehicles with the ABS light on, with brakes that otherwise, operate normally.
ABS is fine for those that buy new and dump their vehicles when the warranty is up. But I expect an old vehicle will have problems and ABS just adds another potential ticking-timebomb. This is why I won't buy an old vehicle with ABS.

Happy Motoring, Mark

vstech · #44 07-04-2015, 09:07 AM

The 86 w126 wasn't built without abs, so finding factory lines from non abs isn't going to happen. You could find a pre85 vehicle and remove the lines from it, and alter them to fit...

I think if you need to make lines manually, the ends are bubble flared, not double...

If you have difficulty with which lines to put where, the abs unit is labeled... In German.

I think everyone has expanded on why it's not a good idea... I am very sure the two accidents you had with functioning ABS would have either been exactly the same, or much worse without it...

Stretch · #45 07-04-2015, 09:30 AM

All I've got to say is

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