1983 240D - clutch replacement questions
 

Hello, all

I'm nearing the end of a long-term project - a major refresh on a 1983 240D. At the moment, I'm replacing the clutch.

Now, I've previously done a one-for-one transmission replacement on a 1994 5-speed Subaru (didn't touch the clutch) and an engine replacement on a 1991 VW Vanagon. On the Vanagon, I swapped the (good) used clutch from my old engine over to the new one (the "new" engine was sourced from an automatic).

I mention all this just so you know that I'm not completely alien to the job. But, this is my first 240D clutch replacment, and the first time I'm actually replacing a worn-out clutch with a new one.

I noticed a difference between the old pressure plate and the new one. I bought a LUK clutch kit and I believe the pressure plate is marked as a Sachs part. Anyway, the new one has, for lack of a better term, a ring in the center. New and old next to each other:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/541/1...e2161be1_c.jpg

The "ring" looks like it's part of the pressure plate assembly, but I've never seen anything like it (I haven't seen a lot of clutches with my own eyes). I just wanted to make sure it's SUPPOSED to be there, and that it's not just a piece put there for shipping that I need to remove. It certainly looks like it's supposed to be there. So, that's question #1.

The new clutch disc next to the old one:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/442/1...0015fc10_c.jpg




Next question - I had the transmission out to clean it up a little bit:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/306/1...1f2b8dac_c.jpg

While looking it over, I noticed I have a bit of side to side play at the input shaft. Is this something I need to be concerned about? If so, what's the next step - replacing the input shaft bearing?

I can't find anything in the factory CD ROM manual about the transmission, no matter how hard I look (if anyone knows if/where it is in there, please let me know). But, from what parts diagrams I can find, it looks like I might be able to remove the front seal cover and replace the input shaft bearing without doing anything else.

Does that sound about right? Or, am I way off on that?


I also have a 4-speed out of a '79 parts car I had a couple of years back. I haven't removed it from the '79 engine yet, but I presume it's in better shape than the '83 transmission. Would it be worth just installing the '79 transmission?

Thanks

The input shafts are always surprisingly loose. Nothing wrong there, but at this age it might be a good idea to change the seals, though as I remember, the front one looks tough.

I imagine the ring on the PP is a durability plus, just check your dimensions carefully to make sure they are the same.

On the flywheel be careful not to take any more than necessary on the surface as it will make your engagement point lower and closer to the floor.

Play on the input shaft is normal for the old transmissions. I have freaked out about that too, sourced a completely different gearbox with exactly the same play.

I like that clutch pressure plate ring seating surface for the release bearing. Have not seen a pressure plate with that either. I could see the fingers lasting a lot longer, but i hope its not a source of noise in the distant future

Thanks for the input.

t walgamuth - I doubt I'll go to the trouble of replacing seals I didn't see any evidence of leaking. The transmission was dirty, but that's all. I wouldn't be opposed to pulling the transmission again if it did turn out to be leaky, but I don't think that's the case.

I agree that it would probably be a good idea, but I don't want to mess with something that doesn't clearly need to be touched. As for the flywheel, I'm going to clean it first and go from there.

The old clutch was worn, but it didn't look quite down to the rivets. It looked noticeably better to my eyes than did the flywheel in my aforementioned Vanagon (also a hydraulic clutch, if that makes any difference). I may be OK on this one with a good cleaning.

Mostly, I have no idea where I could take the flywheel locally for a resurfacing, and nobody I can ask. I don't know any machine shops or anyone else locally that does their own repairs. If it looks like I can sidestep that safely, I probably will. I'm not opposed to doing so if it really looks necessary, though.

I know I should, but I know not everyone does or really has to. Long and the short - playing flywheel resurfacing by ear for the moment.


JB3 - Glad I'm not the only one who hasn't seen something like that before. Like I said, I've seen only a handful of clutches with my own eyes. I've seen lots of pictures, I don't recall a ring like that at all, before. But, I am seeing that ring in SOME pictures of brand new clutch assemblies. Also good to know about the input shaft.

As for the ring being a source of noise, I highly doubt that. The clutch kit is LUK, but included a Sachs pressure plate. I've seen pictures of the Sachs pressure plates (which, from what I can tell from reading, are good quality parts), and some of the pictures have the ring, others don't. It looks to me like an updated design. If so, it was probably updated for a good reason.



Basically, I'm at a stage in this job where I have a lot of options, plenty of time, access to parts, etc, and can make decisions about how to proceed without having a lot of pressure on me. It's a good place to be.

The 79 tranny, as you probably know, is the "iron" version and possibly a little more robust. To change over you will also need to swap the clutch slave, shift rods and throw out bearing, no big deal, it'll work fine.

Shift linkage, too. Not that that's a problem - I have that from my old parts car. Plus, no matter which transmission goes in, it's getting a new clutch master and new clutch slave cylinder. No idea on the age of the current parts, and they likely date to 1983 and 1979, respectively.

As it is, I'm leaning towards keeping the '79 stuff as a spare/backup.

I would too.

I have the '83 Getrag trans and flywheel behind the OM617 in Mutt the Race Truck. It works fine and shifts like butter. I'd stick with the aluminum case unless you had an issue with it.

On the flywheel - from plentiful past experience, if there's any burning or hot spots, get it turned! A good shop will know to turn (actually, grind) both the clutch contact area AND the step that the pressure plate bolts onto. This keeps the clutch travel as built. Be sure to mention it and if they look at you funny find a different shop. You may need to find a shop that does lots of heavy duty truck flywheels as this a pretty common issue on trucks. I got lucky - our local AAMCO did mine and they are top notch (not all AAMCOs as good as ours).

The clutch hydraulics can be a bear to bleed. I'm using an S-10 master so my experience might not be helpful to you but I had the best luck by back-bleeding from the slave up to the master with a veterinary syringe full of brake fluid.

Dan

My Luk pressure plate came just as above with the "ring" in the center. The old pressure plate did not have it.

It works just fine and probably is more durable than the exposed fingers. :)

Same with the clutch disc differences, works great.

My input shaft had a ton of play too, up and down and side to side. Pulled the trans from an 82 240d with 103k miles. I also have an iron box 4spd and it has hardly any play. I think this is a characteristic of the aluminum boxes.

Transmission shifts great.

Re: Clutch Hydraulics

Recommend a new slave cylinder if the old one is original and you can swing it.

Go to O'reillys (i know they have it) or Auto zone and get a oil squirter can (metal pistol grip)

Oreilly's has small clear florescent green colored tubing you can purchase to slip over the oil can tip and slave bleed nipple. (you will need to heat the ends with a lighter to get a tight fit).

Reverse bleed from below.

Above method works great for me (three times now) after fighting with the FSM passenger brake caliper bleed method, and the pumping furiously on the clutch pedal method... Bleeding takes 5 mins now:)

Yah, replacing the clutch master and slave is a good idea unless your down to your last dime. Your kit also includes a new pilot bearing? Having the flywheel milled is a good idea, not that I've always done it, but could make the new clutch last longer, I'll have it done again if I do another.

Great info - thanks.

I already have the new clutch hydraulic components ready for installation, though I'm wondering if I should also try to source and replace the clutch hydraulic line. I see a portion of that line is rubber, and I'd hate to get stranded over something stupid like that.

I also already have a new oil squirter can in hand for the job. Bought it months ago for this specific purpose, though I'm wondering if it might be easier to reverse bleed with my power bleeder tool.

Thanks for the tip on using heat. Hadn't heard that one yet.

1) Not down to the last dime. When I started this project in 2012, I had almost no budget for it. Things have improved in the past few years, and I can afford to (sensibly) throw some brand new parts at the car to finish the project.

2) The kit did not come with a pilot bearing (kit came with pressure plate, clutch disc, throwout bearing, and alignment tool), but I did purchase a new pilot bearing separately. Timken, I think (I've always had very good luck with Timken bearings in other applications).

3) Not necessarily opposed to getting the flywheel surfaced. Not sure it needs it. Mostly, as I said, I don't know any local machine shops and don't know anyone locally that could give me a solid recommendation. If I think I can safely proceed with the flywheel as-is, that's probably what I'm going to do.

No problem!

I think the parts are NLA. I believe the options are taking it to a hydraulic shop and getting it remade, or having used spares.

To be clearer: Heat the tubing, not the metal tips! Its tricky, you're just trying make it pliable enough to shrink fit to the bleeder and nozzle tip without burning it.

The only info I was able to find regarding this part difference issue was one guy mentioning the pressure plate had a weird attachment that he cut off lol.

Thanks - I'd figured that out in regard to the use of heat, but it never hurts to be REALLY explicit when giving instructions.

As for the hydraulic line, I keep thinking to myself that the metal tubing and fittings have to be standard, and based on the rest of the car, I'd bet they're bubble flare.


My (admittedly uninformed) guess is that I'd probably be able to fairly well duplicate this line with some properly-sized and flared metal brake line coupled with a brake flex hose.

Of course, watch as I fall flat on my face trying to do so... :)

The flywheel was deeply worn on my 74 BMW when I did its clutch....mb flywheels seem to be a lot harder.