Does 60# pressure mean anything on a R12 system - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #16 08-06-2015, 11:03 AM

This is a good reference...

Automotive AC Information Forum - ACKITS.COM

BillGrissom · #17 08-06-2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Somehow some way Bill has some financial interest in selling Duracool... holds stocks, a relative works for the company.... there has to be some reason he would go to the trouble to try to mislead people year after year.

Untrue. I am just trying to help people here. The OP mentioned it, so no need to freak on my post.

Read and decide for yourself. HC refrigerant is now widely used in Canada and in home refrigerators in Europe. Your EPA quotes support my statement that they are "not helpful". Venting HC to the atmosphere is as bad for the environment as a cow fart (actually a valid concern for global warming). If concerned of the danger, try pouring some liquid from the can on the ground and light it like I did. Not even as scary as a wax candle.

leathermang · #18 08-06-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Untrue. I am just trying to help people here. The OP mentioned it, so no need to freak on my post.

Read and decide for yourself. HC refrigerant is now widely used in Canada and in home refrigerators in Europe. Your EPA quotes support my statement that they are "not helpful". Venting HC to the atmosphere is as bad for the environment as a cow fart (actually a valid concern for global warming). If concerned of the danger, try pouring some liquid from the can on the ground and light it like I did. Not even as scary as a wax candle.

The OP did NOT mention it.... you brought it up in the third post of the thread.
How fast do those REFRIGERATORS travel ? How often do the CRASH into something ?

"Some claim HC can "explode", but impossible unless pre-mixed with air. All refrigerants (and their oils) can burn if a hose is punctured and blows on a hot turbo or exhaust, and some produce poisonous gases. 12 oz of HC is minimal mass to burn. I lit some I collected and it burned very slowly, similar to a wax candle. It can only burn as fast as the cold liquid gets vaporized."--BillGrissom

More misdirection... it is under pressure.... already combined with oil ....
and we do not need to confine this to a situation where it is blown onto a hot exhaust...
The danger is in the fact that it is up at the front of the car with basically no protection. Not even the radiator is in from of the Condenser... and in a collision where we have an HC spraying out under pressure the flash point for a fire is way lower than what you poured out and ignited.
The question is not about ' minimal mass to burn' it is about FIRE or NO FIRE... if we used the term ' Propane' and the fact that SPARKS in a normal accident can ignite that gas.... that is the situation we are preaching against... since it is an UNNECESSARY DANGER.....
One more thing ... if a person needs to get their system serviced on a trip.. try finding a shop which will touch it with a Hydrocarbon in it...
And another thing which is seldom mentioned in the refrigerant discussions... particularly important for R4 compressors.... which have NO oil reservoir ... is that of the system oil being ' mixable' in the refrigerant so it can take it around the system and keep the compressor lubed.... We know R12 has an oil which will work...and R134 does....

BillGrissom · #19 08-07-2015, 10:18 AM

12 oz of refrigerant burning in the engine bay is inconsequential in an accident. There is much more mass of flammable rubber & plastics under the hood, and much worse in modern cars. Your concern seems more about initiating a fire after an accident, though there are plenty of sparks generated, and worse dry grass in our western states. Also, all refrigerant leaks can start fires as M-B demonstrated w/ the new "claimed not flammable" HFO-1234yc refrigerant, though their bigger concern was the extremely dangerous HF gas generated (etched the windshield, would destroy your corneas).

Re oil, for any refrigerant it appears that Hella's PAO 68 oil is best. You can buy on ebay (Duracool re-brands it). It stays in the compressor for better efficiency and better lubrication (very important w/ a Harrison R4 compressor). It is compatible with all refrigerants and any existing oils (mineral, PAG, ester, POE), and does not absorb moisture (PAG does). What I read suggests that the oil mixing w/ the refrigerant and travelling thru the system is undesireable. That is why PAO 68 is better for R-12 than mineral oil. But, read Hella's claims for yourself and evaluate. And no need to keep quoting me, since people here can read fine and think for themselves. They can convert their cars to R-134A, just don't whine in perhaps a few years when faced with another forced conversion. I understand manufacturers can no longer install R-134A in cars for sale in Europe or Canada, and the U.S. is currently in new international climate change discussions.

leathermang · #20 08-07-2015, 10:45 AM

[QUOTE=BillGrissom;3506008]12 oz of refrigerant burning in the engine bay is inconsequential in an accident..... [QUOTE]

Really ? We are talking about UNNECESSARILY using something which might cause a fire when better chemicals are more appropriate with regard to functioning in the AC.
Any fire... where the alternative is No Fire.....
is bad and potentially fatal.... as you may not be able to quickly exit the vehicle.... Normal People understand this... I can not help you understand this concept ....