Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:19 PM
Precision Somethingist.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 277
'79 240D glowplug kit

Hi,

The original wire glow plugs were upgraded to pencil-type. For some reason there is a wire connected directly to the battery, and one small gauge
wire (18 or less?) breaks out of the wire bundle to a terminal on the solenoid.
The car, after the glowplug kit was installed, developed electrical issues, namely the battery would quickly discharge after running, as if the lights had been left on.
When the car came to my place, I decided to disconnect the wire after a run, and the car starts even over a week later like it was shot out a cannon.
What could be the cause? I am thinking something is not wired correctly through the glowplug relay, or it could be the radio circuit-which is aftermarket-and is also wired hot to the battery, and bypasses the stock fuse panel.
I don't want to get into tearing apart wire bundles, but I am sure it will have to be done to single out the culprit.
The PO replaced the starter, alternator, alternator bracket (new) ignition switch (new) without giving thought to this one wire, and what it was connected to. Maybe the glowplugs are staying ON?!?
I can't imagine a radio circuit drawing as much power as the headlights, but something is drawing a lot of juice!

Any ideas appreciated!!!

Thanks,

snapped_bolt
__________________
'81 240D For now, a good place to borrow new parts
'80 300TD Probably will be put back into service!
'79 240D BACK IN SERVICE SINCE 09/16; limited use, oil leak. Guide pin r/sealed/replaced. Still a leak. Front crank seal....
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-06-2015, 02:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,740
Sounds as though the PO installed a Msource kit with monark glowplugs...bad one should use bosch 80035's.....

There should be an odd switch somewhere in the car you hold on to preglow the glow plugs....

If the car still starts with out holding that switch in....then that means the PO didn't unhook the factory glowplug relay....

With out photos of the wiring, engine compartment etc.....I can't state if it was or not....

A 79 usually means it was built in 78 thus has the glow plug relay under the dash but if it was built in 79 it may have the three legged plug under the car...

This might help..


Homemade: Loop to pencil style glow plug conversion
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:08 PM
Precision Somethingist.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 277
Pictures..

...will follow.

The hot wire setup to the plugs is different...they seem to be wired in series? The hot wire runs from plug to plug. I thought they were supposed to be individually powered? Like, one goes out, the rest stay lit?
The car is currently "trapped" in the garage, so my photography skills will be tested. There is a Dodge Ram 3500 waiting for the engine to be installed in the way, so I will have to do my best in the garage. It was so much better in the sun!

I will look around and see what remains of the original system. This is currently energized by the ignition switch.
I guess I will be buying a multimeter just to find the hungry line that is gobbling the juice, but it seems the draw must be coming from the glowplugs being energized, I can't imagine the radio having the capability of being turned up loud enough to kill the battery in a couple of hours, if it was even turned up!


Thanks! I will look into the glow system an report the findings. Maybe my heat gun can pick up a clue.

snapped_bolt
__________________
'81 240D For now, a good place to borrow new parts
'80 300TD Probably will be put back into service!
'79 240D BACK IN SERVICE SINCE 09/16; limited use, oil leak. Guide pin r/sealed/replaced. Still a leak. Front crank seal....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,740
That is fine, if one goes out the rest will still stay energized. It is a way to lessen the wires used.....Only the loop plugs have that issue, as they are more related to resistors...

I have had an aftermarket radio drain the battery, as the cd motor was continuing to run when the engine was off....You may have some ground issues as well....

Does the battery light on the dash, light up when the key is turned to the glow position?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:25 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 24,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by snapped_bolt View Post
Hi,

The original wire glow plugs were upgraded to pencil-type. For some reason there is a wire connected directly to the battery, and one small gauge
wire (18 or less?) breaks out of the wire bundle to a terminal on the solenoid.
The car, after the glowplug kit was installed, developed electrical issues, namely the battery would quickly discharge after running, as if the lights had been left on.
When the car came to my place, I decided to disconnect the wire after a run, and the car starts even over a week later like it was shot out a cannon.
What could be the cause? I am thinking something is not wired correctly through the glowplug relay, or it could be the radio circuit-which is aftermarket-and is also wired hot to the battery, and bypasses the stock fuse panel.
I don't want to get into tearing apart wire bundles, but I am sure it will have to be done to single out the culprit.
The PO replaced the starter, alternator, alternator bracket (new) ignition switch (new) without giving thought to this one wire, and what it was connected to. Maybe the glowplugs are staying ON?!?
I can't imagine a radio circuit drawing as much power as the headlights, but something is drawing a lot of juice!

Any ideas appreciated!!!

Thanks,

snapped_bolt
Which Glow Plug Relay are you useing?

They show 2 for your year and model. which is in an aluminum box and is behind the instrument cluster or on the left Fender Well (For California models with chassis serial number from 149279 through 208266. For Federal (non-California) models with chassis serial number from 149292 through 208266. Please note appearance and Mercedes part number on existing unit prior to ordering. 1 per car.) It bolts down at three points and is like $550 for a new one.

Or do you think you are using the Relay that came with the Adapter Glow Plug Kit?
If you are using the Relay that comes in the kit it is likely that it has been wired wrong.

The Silver Box type Relays generally work without the Relay From the Kit. I think the fender well Relay will also work but few people have them and I have not read a thread on them.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-06-2015, 03:26 PM
Precision Somethingist.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 277
Dash lights

All work properly and go out when they should.



snapped_bolt
__________________
'81 240D For now, a good place to borrow new parts
'80 300TD Probably will be put back into service!
'79 240D BACK IN SERVICE SINCE 09/16; limited use, oil leak. Guide pin r/sealed/replaced. Still a leak. Front crank seal....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-07-2015, 12:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 418
My '78 uses the old loop style relay with pencil plugs - the timer doesn't work properly, and keeps the glow plugs on all the time until the starter is cranked, then they're off until the ignition gets reset again. Might be something similar, although mine doesn't keep them on with the ignition off.
__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 160cc superpump, HX30W turbo
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *sold*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D (DD while '78 has work done)

1977 280> 300D - 500,000km

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-07-2015, 12:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZScott View Post
My '78 uses the old loop style relay with pencil plugs - the timer doesn't work properly, and keeps the glow plugs on all the time until the starter is cranked, then they're off until the ignition gets reset again. Might be something similar, although mine doesn't keep them on with the ignition off.
Have you replaced/checked the temp sensor that is in the head? The older loop style relays use an external sensor that plugs into the head near the injection pump. If this is disconnected or bad the relay will not be able sense the temp of engine to know how long to stay on or go off...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2015, 06:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
Have you replaced/checked the temp sensor that is in the head? The older loop style relays use an external sensor that plugs into the head near the injection pump. If this is disconnected or bad the relay will not be able sense the temp of engine to know how long to stay on or go off...
Aha, yes that'll be it. My .952 engine currently in it doesn't have said sensor of course.

Doesn't help OP much then sorry!
__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 160cc superpump, HX30W turbo
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *sold*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D (DD while '78 has work done)

1977 280> 300D - 500,000km

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:29 PM
Precision Somethingist.
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 277
OK, it's been long enough

I'm back

after the worst month of my life. We lost a 26-year old daughter due to completely avoidable circumstances simply regarding what she was prescribed vs what the insurance company would fill.

Now I am trying to get back to the '79-

Made a 50-mile trip with her today, of course I heard a few things I wondered about, but I am generally quite pleased with the performance. After driving the '81 with the intermittent vacuum shifting, it was nice to have this car shift a little more...normally.

I have kept that stray wire off the battery when the car will be shut down for more than half an hour, and the battery drain issues have ceased.
Cooljay mentioned the head temp sensor, and at this point that sounds excellent. This would essentially put the glowplugs at full throttle as the feedback form the sensor could be seen as -32F!
There indeed has to be a reason for this fast drain.
The wire that is definitely not stock has a 1/2" ID eye terminal, hung precariously from the positive battery post. This is what I have disconnected for any stay over 15 minutes.
If the temp sensor is erratic/not working, it is possible that the glowplugs are being fired the entire time the car is running... no so good.
I'll look into that sensor.
In the meantime I would like to route that line a little more "stock". I absolutely HATE electrical applications that are just slapped onto the battery. I just saw a truck I worked on leave my driveway yesterday with the aftermarket HID system wired into the horn. Really?

Wish me luck.

snapped_bolt
__________________
'81 240D For now, a good place to borrow new parts
'80 300TD Probably will be put back into service!
'79 240D BACK IN SERVICE SINCE 09/16; limited use, oil leak. Guide pin r/sealed/replaced. Still a leak. Front crank seal....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-23-2016, 05:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,585
It`s 2:15am and catching up on the posts and came across yours.
Iam so deeply sorry for your loss, no words can say for what your are feeling.
We will say some prayers for you.


Charlie
__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ilys/boobs.gif


Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-23-2016, 06:27 AM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,353
I'm very sorry to hear that. I can't even comprehend what you must be going through. I hope you folks are doing all right. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. We will also keep you in our prayers.

As far as the car goes, my understanding is that, if the glow plugs have been converted from loop to pencil, all you should need to do is connect the wire running to the first glow plug to the fuse on the firewall and it should work. Have you tried that or is the wiring messed up too much?

I'm also struggling with glow plug issues on my 240D turbo -- the plugs were converted to pencils but not wired correctly. I've already tried the tip I gave you but it didn't work for me, so now I need to check out the rest of my system. I also have a radio that the PO wired to the radiator and have no issues with battery draining.

That's sweet that the PO put in a new alternator bracket -- those things are $$$!
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-23-2016, 11:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 78
I'm sad to hear of the loss of your daughter. God bless her!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page