Costs to replace an auto tranny with a 4spd in a W123 240D? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

brian_V · #1 10-26-2015, 01:46 PM

Hi all.

There is a great 240D for sale near me. Well, it's great in every except it has an automatic. If I ever buy a 240D, I want it to be manual.

Does anyone have an idea of what the rough costs would be to source and install a M/T on a 240D? I know enough of you have done it!

Dan Stokes · #2 10-26-2015, 03:17 PM

It's the same drill as if putting a manual behind a 617 which I have done. I bought a donor car (pretty nice car but with a bad clutch slave cylinder). I was in it for $650 but I got $250 from P&P for the carcass and sold the engine for a couple of hundred so the total outlay was $200, +/-. Going with a donor car is the smart money as you'll need the trans, clutch (might want to get new clutch disc, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing) flywheel, the shifter, master cylinder, and pedal set and hydraulic lines. I didn't need a lot of this as mine didn't go in a Mercedes but the point is that you need a COMPLETE assembly. I'd keep the donor car until the swap is up and working because you might miss some important bits (like the console - not sure on that) and if the donor is there you're home free.

It's a fair amount of work especially if the auto is working properly - but it CAN be done. Take it a step at a time and keep doing it 'till you're done doing it. Don't kid yourself that you can do this in a weekend - ain't gonna happen on the first one. Subsequent ones, maybe.

Have fun

Dan

Mölyapina · #3 10-26-2015, 03:50 PM

Actually, it is a touch less expensive to go 240D -> 240D then 240D -> 300D because you don't have to fuss with lengthening driveshafts and such. That said, I would expect it to be around $500 if you just buy a kit.

leathermang · #4 10-26-2015, 04:55 PM

Why don't you buy it and drive it while you look for a parts car....
you might be surprised at how much you learn making sure it is all up to specs and how well it works if adjusted correctly...

vince77 · #5 10-26-2015, 05:47 PM

Had a LA shop quote me $600 to install his rebuilt manual trans (was $500 until he found out how tired my slush box is). It is pretty simple under there, just so dang heavy.

Dan Stokes · #6 10-26-2015, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince77

Had a LA shop quote me $600 to install his rebuilt manual trans (was $500 until he found out how tired my slush box is). It is pretty simple under there, just so dang heavy.

My '85 Automatic was heavy but the Getrag (aluminum case) 4 speed weighs nothin'. Seriously, I doubt it weighs more than 50 lbs. The flywheel is another story! I think mine is 34 lbs if memory serves (which it often doesn't these days.

I didn't count the driveshaft (I had mine made) as he can transfer the shaft from the donor car.

The suggestion to drive his and enjoy and learn while looking for a deal on a donor car is a great one.

Dan

charmalu · #7 10-27-2015, 01:02 AM

A 240D FW weighs about 27lbs, a 300D W is about 38lbs.

You will need to swap the auto peddle assy for a manual peddle assy with the clutch peddle.

Remove the auto shifter and drop in the manual shifter assy. It is a straight bolt in.

Remove the Drive Line, the auto trans cross mount.
Support the rear of the engine and drop the auto trans.

You will need to swap the auto FW for the manual FW. before removing the FW look for alignment marks.
Should be one on the crank and FW, if not use a chisel to mark both.
Then have the manual FW matched balanced exactly to the what the auto FW is.
The shop should mark the manual FW, and then install it lining up the marks.

You will need to purchase 12 new Manual FW Bolts. Auto and Manual are different.

You will need to replace the auto trans X mount for a 240D manual X mount.

The rear section of the DL are the same, the front manual piece is longer as I remember than the auto one.
No cutting or welding required.

Once the trans is installed, then connect the shift rods.

Install the Master Cylinder on the peddle assy.
Install the Slave Cylinder on the Transmission.
Connect the hyd lines.

The Brake MC Reservoir has a plastic nipple on the side, this where you get the supply for the Clutch system.

Cur a hole in the large grommet in the firewall. Run a hole through it to the Clutch MC Nipple.
Cut the Brake MC Nipple off and shove on the hose.

Then have fun bleeding the system.

You could be into the swap for a good healthy $800.

PNP this weekend has a 50% sale on selected parts.

Anyway, this kind of whut chaya gotta do.

Disclaimer: Iam not responsible for what I can`t remember.

Charlie

send from my pos computer

Dan Stokes · #8 10-27-2015, 07:45 AM

Listen to Charlie - he knows this stuff! And note that my donor car was way less than buying the parts separately - if you can find one.

Dan

charmalu · #9 10-27-2015, 08:15 AM

I have seen quite a few 240D parts cars in this area....but most are automatics.

I picked up a 80 for $750 with a neat inspection hole in the Block

dang girl ran it out of oil.
Looking for a driver that was wrecked.
Saw 3 several months ago, 2 T Boned and one side swiped. All 3 manual trans.

Picked up a 78 for $300, same thing...girl ran it out oil.

Back to CL.

Charlie

sent from my pos computer

greazzer · #10 10-27-2015, 08:21 AM

You can do the swap in a weekend. The costs all "depend." If you go with the 38# flywheel, those cost around $300 bucks alone. A "nice" 4 speed manual will run you up to $500-$600 for the kit, e.g., tranny, driveshaft (small end), shifter, pedal assembly, et cet.

leathermang · #11 10-27-2015, 10:59 AM

The 240 engine needs the lighter flywheel....
If someone owns the five cylinder flywheel they should be able to make some money selling that to someone putting a manual trans behind a five cylinder... these are WAY harder to find than a proper 240 flywheel for a 240 engine..

"Then have the manual FW matched balanced exactly to the what the auto FW is."-Charlie

I think this needs be discussed so that if there are vibration issues the owner would know they might look at this area..

Match balancing the AUTO flywheel to the manual flywheel may be the best method available at the time of the swap....

In the FSM match balancing from one flywheel to another is very low tech..but with care can be very accurate.... a stand with bearings on the top allow a mandrel to hold the flywheel vertically between the uprights and the flywheel is spun... which spot lands at the bottom is marked.. this is done repeatedly... so you know if the flywheel is heavier in one direction.

Like one would balance lawn mower blades......

Then the new flywheel is bolted to the other one on the same mandrel... I believe opposite to the first one and then they are spun and alterations are made to the new flywheel... or something like this ... results in a new flywheel hopefully matched to the old one. This is thought to be necessary since the original flywheel is BALANCED to the ENGINE at the factory.... How they can dynamically (in motion) balance it to the engine I can not visualize. I am taking the FSM at its word.

The matching method in the FSM is ' static '...

So here is a potential glitch in balancing the new flywheel to the AUTO flywheel...
the rotating mass of the front half of the Torque Converter is in the equation. But not able to be taken into account for balancing the new flywheel...

This may necessitate some ' trial and error' for the new owner.... meaning it may be necessary to drop the transmission and ' clock ' the flywheel from its first installation position to another.... which direction or how much I have no idea how to determine.

I do think that it is important to use NEW RUBBER everywhere when doing this swap.

New engine mounts, new trans mounts, new shifting linkage rubber, new flex discs....
There is a ***anti vibration something on the back of the manual transmission***.. I think VStech has posted a picture of it.... one should be sure that is intact and correct at the time of the swap....Do not want to be chasing ' wild goose' fixes due to lack of original equipment missing...

This post is not to be interpreted as anything against this swap.... just as a flag if someone has a problem for things not often mentioned as possible causes...

One can see from Charlie's post that if at all possible it is preferable to have a total parts car in one's possession .... and many have suggested parked near the project car... it is pretty much all unbolt and reinstall ... but there is LOT of that... thankfully MB made the basic car with both options AND included the BRACKETS on all the cars..

Some people have had machine shops balance their flywheels with a computer... That may depend on the experience of the operator of the machine.. I do not know... but either way clocking may still be a viable option if needed.... aggravating...and some labor.... .but not rocket science....

cooljjay · #12 10-27-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

New engine mounts, new trans mounts, new shifting linkage rubber, new flex discs....
There is a ***anti vibration something on the back of the manual transmission***.. I think VStech has posted a picture of it.... one should be sure that is intact and correct at the time of the swap....Do not want to be chasing ' wild goose' fixes due to lack of original equipment missing...

My euro had one of these "anti-vibration" things on the driveline....The epc doesn't even show them anymore, I removed it.....and I haven't noticed anyother odd vibrations....here is a pic of one still installed uh hmm "intact"

leathermang · #13 10-27-2015, 04:25 PM

So that is ON the actual driveline.....interesting....
Why did you take it off ?
That may be in addition to the thing on the back of the trans...(?)

The reason it was discussed in the past was when people did the auto to manual trans swap behind a 617 five cylinder....and could not find where the vibrations were coming from....

cooljjay · #14 10-27-2015, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

So that is ON the actual driveline.....interesting....
Why did you take it off ?
That may be in addition to the thing on the back of the trans...(?)

The reason it was discussed in the past was when people did the auto to manual trans swap behind a 617 five cylinder....and could not find where the vibrations were coming from....

Yeah, it is right behind the front flex disc....

I had asked about it awhile before, as I noticed it had came apart....Someone stated it wasn't really needed....Can't remember all the details why....

Maybe one day I will reinstall it...but so far, I haven't noticed a difference....

Asked about it, around this page..

Reviving my 1983 euro 300D....

daw_two · #15 10-28-2015, 10:35 AM

I have a driveshaft from a 240D manual if anyone wants it.