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  #1  
Old 05-07-2002, 01:09 PM
ck42's Avatar
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The Saga continues....water pump tradegy!!!

Got the new pump in and was installing it and torquing down the bolts.


The bolt on the very bottom spun in half as I was tightening it down!!!!

I do NOT have any kind of tools for this type of situation and even if I did, I've never done it....plus the area to work in down there is pretty tight.

Before I call the tow truck and have the car halled off, any last words?

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1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)

Last edited by ck42; 05-07-2002 at 04:13 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2002, 01:26 PM
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Is there any part of the bolt sticking out, with the water pump removed?

If so, you're in luck. You can take a pair of vice grips, tighten them down onto the part that's sticking out, and hopefulyl be able to thread the broken part out.

If there isn't anything sticking out, you can take a drill and "drill the bolt out", if there's physically space for the drill. Just make sure that the bit you use is a few sizes smaller than the bolt itself...and if the surrounding parts don't collapse and come right out, you may need to drill it to the size of the bolt and re-tap the hole.

If you don't have a tap-and-die set, I don't think they're much more than $30...and it definitely beats having the car hauled away, especially if that's all that's wrong with it.
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2002, 01:29 PM
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Ok....just realized something that makes me feel a LITTLE bit better...

the bolt is broken off in the pump HOUSING and NOT the block like I was thinking.

Worse case, I buy a new pump housing and start over again....with NEW bolts and some lower setting on the torque wrench. Arghh

I'm gonna go see if there's any thread sticking out of the pump housing....if so, I'll try and get the bolt out.
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1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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  #4  
Old 05-07-2002, 01:51 PM
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It's bad enough tho.....I was SO close to getting things wrapped up!!

Now. There's only about 1/16" of the broken bolt sticking out of the pump housing. I can't grip it well enough to turn it so I'm looking at removing the pump housing. BUT.....

that bottom bolt, to remove the housing, is blocked from getting a socket on it by some flywheel looking thing where all the belts attach to the crank.

Am I suppose to take off the entire pulley assembly from the crank????? Please say no....please!
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Chris
1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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  #5  
Old 05-07-2002, 01:58 PM
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ck42,

Take the housing off and try removing the broken fastener out in the open. Did you lubricate the threads before you began screwing it back together? If so, it is likely the fastener will come out ok. Take care with the vent line (I think this car has one) from the housing to the head, I believe.

On an old car every time you expand the scope of the job you risk further growth by breaking little incidental stuff off. A little penetrant and time to soak might help. Part of the problem is corrosion due to dissimilar metals.

Good luck and keep at the job. You will get it! Jim
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1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
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  #6  
Old 05-07-2002, 02:05 PM
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Jim,

yes, I put some wrench oil on the bolts after cleaning them with a wire brush. I didn't chase the holes tho....

Bill....there IS a notch that has to be turned to the right position to get to the bolt BUT there's also the pulley system and a 'dampener' that's right in front of that notched piece which prevents getting to that last bolt.

The CD manual says you have to remove all that pulley stuff too

So...off I go to possibly do MORE damage.
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1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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  #7  
Old 05-07-2002, 02:52 PM
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Ok....more damage narrowly averted.

Started loosening the power steering pump in order to take the belt off and one of the nuts was seriously tight. Oiled it down and finally got it. then, loosened the other two nuts. But...no movement. How the heck is that pump suppose to loosen to get the belt off??

Then noticed yet ANOTHER belt to get off...the compressor belt...couldn't even begin to see where the bolts were to loosen it...argh!! I was about 30 seconds form calling a flat bed truck.

Decided to try getting that bolt out again. Grabbed my tiny pair of side cutters and was finally able to grab some of the bolt. I saw the bolt turn. 2 minutes later, the bolt is OUT!!

Now, since HomeDepot doesn't deliver, I have to wait for the good woman to get home so I can go pick up some new bolts.

...so, I'm in a holding pattern again. More later.
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Chris
1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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  #8  
Old 05-07-2002, 07:55 PM
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Congrats.

Would advise not using just "any old" bolt. I don't think those bolts are "rated" but if so make sure you use good quality (not import "bin") bolts with the same or better rating (hash marks on bolt head).
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  #9  
Old 05-07-2002, 08:55 PM
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That was going to be my next question.

What type metal should the bolt be?
How do I spec the bolt?

I'm going to HomeDepot here shortly.
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Chris
1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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  #10  
Old 05-07-2002, 09:06 PM
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I would recommend purchasing bolts from an Industrial Fastener type supply house. Take one of the other bolts with you and they can take a look at it and provide you with the properly rated fastener.
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2002, 10:04 PM
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mmm...too late. Got some bolts at the Depot.

Type 8 steel/zinc coated. That's pretty much what the original bolts are.

Only thing is that they are about 2mm longer than the originals. Just need to find out if that extra length is gonna cause any issues.
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Chris
1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2002, 12:46 AM
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One last tip - which may get me flamed - don't use a torque wrench for "little" bolts like this. I have gotten myself into more trouble than I care to discuss by using the proper tool. (No that's not a typo.) The extra leverage of the wrench can end up masking the true force you are applying to such a small bolt, and most of the time, it just doesn't need to be that tight! Use a 1/4 or 3/8 hand ratchet, snug them all down evenly, and then a little past "snug". Use anti-sieze if possible, especially on aluminum threads. If using LocTite please ONLY use the blue stuff (the red stuff should be banned.)

If you insist on a torque wrench, make sure the threads are all clean and DRY- use NO anti-sieze or other stuff - and maybe set the wrench a little lower than spec. Also, the wrenches are most accurate at the top of their rated range, so be VERY VERY careful if using a wrench rated (for example) 20-100 lb-ft on a bolt set to 25 lb-ft!! Much better to use one rated (for example) 5-30 for a 25 lb setting. Many are off as much as 20 percent in the lower rating range.

IMO, the torque wrench should be saved for "big" bolts like head bolts, suspension stuff, etc that are about M8 or bigger. Oh, and DEFINITELY use one EVERY TIME when torquing your alloy wheel lug bolts! That is actually the #1 use of my 1/2-inch torque wrench.

Let the flames begin! (Nomex suit on...)


Regards,
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Last edited by gsxr; 05-08-2002 at 12:54 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2002, 11:22 AM
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Dave: I hear what you're saying. In my case, I made a mistake when looking at the torque settings in the Hayne's manual. I was looking at something that indicated 33Nm. My small torque wrench only goes to 29Nm to begin with.

I found the correct torque setting in my MBZ CD manual. It says that these bolts should be tightened to only 10Nm. That is MUCH more reasonable sounding. 10Nm is about 1/2 an ugh

10Nm is also about right in the middle of this torque wrench so the accuracy should be pretty good.

As for the lugs, at the very least, I anyone who is putting them back on use torque sticks.

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Chris
1985 300SD - 'Grace' (198K mi.)
2018 Honda Civic Sport
2018 Honda CRV LX
2010 Honda Fit Sport (RIP)
2013 Honda Accord Sport (Sold)
1996 Lexus LS400 (Retired)
1995 Ford Contour SE (Retired)
1976 Porsche 914 (Sold)
1972 Datsun 240Z (RIP)
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